Javed Zaki: I do not understand your comment, are you saying that one should not ask a question? Or you are saying that those who are trying to translate are being very respectful so they should not follow that route? Do you mind to take a crack at my question asked to all the forum members? Thanks.

Sajno! Waris Shah horaaN nooN ik chaNgga te oggha poet te ohnaaN di kitab "Heer" nooN shaa'iri di ik solakhni te man-shaaNt kitab rehn deo. OhnooN 'holi scripture' na banaoo je oh taaq de otte rakhan lei reh jaae.

MuNdya taweetaan waalya
RaNjhe diaaN ritaaN waalya
.... Waal tere chhulle chhulle
.... Roop tera balle balle
........ Tere naal nayooN la liya
Mundya taweetaaN waalya

KuRye ni waNgaaN waaliye
Reshmi jaye angaaN waalye
.... WaNgaaN chhaNkaa ke eviN
.... AkhiaaN mila ke eviN
........ SanooN pichhe pichhe la liya
KuRye ni waNgaaN waalye

Udd pudd kaNwaaN
kidhar meiN jaavaaN
... KiyouN tooN benaire neiN behNda
... kiyouN tooN benaire neiN behNda
PaaNwaaN tenooN chooriaaN
Raj gallaN gooRhyaaN
... Je tooN ja ke maahye nooN kehNda
... Je tooN ja ke maahye noon kehNda
..... assaaN dhola ji la liya
MuNdya taweetaaN waalya

tusi ve lote tuhadi zaat ve lota tusi naal faujian de rahNde
asi jamhoori, sadi zaat jamhoori asi naal lokaN de rahNde

lote aa gaye maidan wich--------------hae Jamali
dhoke baaz awaam wich---------------hae Jamali
aao milke mojaN luttiye----------------hae Jamali
aao milke lut machaiye----------------hae Jamali


tootak tootak tootak tootiyaN...hae Jamali
pai kursi si khaali hae jamaali
ayea PM ban ke hai jamaali

hauli hauli ayea ni main faujian de naal naal,
karde uDeekaN mainu langh gaye kai saal,
Mush ji paireeN paina,
jo aakho ohiyO kehna,
jehna de vall hoan faujaN..........hae Jamaali
oho luttdey ne maujaN..............hae Jamaali
tootak tootak tootak.....

On another note, I am not obligated to fulfill *anyone's* desire on a certain way of communication. I find that very suffocating. If people have issues, I am sorry that's not my problem. We will never understand each others' mind inside out. Let's not make an attempt to do that. :)

PLG: I used the repeated expression as "Silent Spectator." Probably, the choice of word did not convey my real intent. Sorry, did not mean to be offensive; but did want to put you in the slot of a silent spectator.

waris aapne aap nu kehnda hoya sab nu das reha hai Mout di Kardi sachaai ke jehre tur gaey ne is jahaan ton Oh kisse haal v Murh ke nahin aaondey te Loki saade kolon Vaapis aaona bhaalde ne jo ke Isque Hakiki di Mout mar gaye han.

Waris Shah Jo Gaey so Naheen MuRdey
Lok Assaan Ton AaoNaa Bhalde nee

Jithe tak meri Matt kamm kardi hai ehna 2 lines da matlab te eh niklda hai ke waris aapne aap nu kehnda hoya sab nu das reha hai Mout di Kardi sachaai ke jehre tur gaey ne is jahaan ton Oh kisse haal v Murh ke nahin aaondey te Loki saade kolon Vaapis aaona bhaalde ne jo ke Isque Hakiki di Mout mar gaye han.

Meri Aqal te ethe tak hi kam kardi hai. Baaki Vaal(hair) di Khal Lohun Valeyaan Nu pata hove.

RABB RAKHA

It will be very hard to know what was in Waris Shah's mind when he wrote those beautiful lines. My take is that each of us when we read or listen something,it hits us differently(often time when we read ourself same thing we may feel differently depending upon our own state of mind and our own viewpoint).

However this is my read on this right now and it has some religious angle to it.

O, man you have come to this world and you get this chance only once(do some good in this life), because you are not goig to get another chance(you are not going to come back). Don't waite till you get old to pray, then it will be too late(Bhagg/blessing knock at your door, don't let it go).

I think Waris Shah has some deeper message than the literal meang of the verse. On the other hand I may be completely off base, Regards

It is a matter of great satisfaction for me that the job done by me is appreciated by all of you. I thank you very much for your kind and encouraging words. Certainly, I will carry on my work on our great sufis. Dear Sameer, I acknowledge your review as an honour for my this little work. I was in Lahore for the past two nights and one day. 80% copies of the book are sold or distributed free of cost here in Pindi/Islamabad. Lahore, the heart of Punjab (or Pakistan), was missed so I took one hundred copies there. After gifting a few copies to the Punjabi giants I kept the the remaining copies of the book at the known book-stalls in Lahore. Its price is very low as I mentioned earlier Rs.25/ whereas its cost was Rs.17/- so the Lahori friends demand fifty percent discount. I tried to pull them upto 40% but they insist on fifty percent. They were annoyed that such a nice book (its title, printing paper and even printing and other material contents) is sold just for Rs.20 or less is not fair. They want to earn profit and it was not my motive so I feel I got failure in Lahore. They kept the books without paying me single penny and said to make another visit so that they could pay me. I think my own shop and a few shops in Pindi are enough to sell the book. They were insisting that its price should be raised upto Rs.50 or Rs.40. Then it should be given to the book sellers at 50% discount on sale and return bases. Dr. Zaki, how much hard is selling the books here if you are not the part of the book-maafia. They are to some extent right that they opened their businesses not for satisfying their spirit but bellies. Another matter with the guy who designed the web site is unfriendly now. As Zahra suggested I send her comments to him eg option for the guest book. But he is just avoiding. Anyhow, whatever the job he has done is also appreciable. I request APNA friends that if among you someone is expert of this job he should come ahead. Zahra, one lady came to Buddah carrying the dead body of his child and placed the body in the feet of Buddah and said, "You are saint and great man and close to almighty God so please make him alive." He assured her that he would help her but he also asked her to bring for him some mustard seeds but from that house where no one ever had died. She went from door to door and asked for the mustard seeds but with the condition. Finally, she came back with empty hands and silently took her child to dispose her body. Zahra, "And those, who have passed away, will never come back but the people ask us." Thanks for the patience to read my long post.

It is a matter of great satisfaction for me that the job done by is appreciated by you all. I thank you very much for your kind and encouraging words. Dear Sameer, I acknowledge your review as honour for my this little work.I was in Lahore for the past two nights and one day. 80% book is sold or distributed free of cost here in Pindi/Islamabad. Lahore, the heart of Punjab (or Pakistan), was missed so I took one hundred copies there. I kept the book at the book stalls in Lahore. Its price is very low as I mentioned earlier Rs.25/ whereas its cost was Rs.17/- so the Lahori friends demand fifty percent discount. I tried to pull them upto 40% but they insist on fifty percent. They were annoyed that such a nice book (its title, printing paper and even printing and other material contents) is sold just for Rs.20 or less is not fair. They want to earn profit and it was not my motive so I feel I got failure in Lahore. They kept the books without paying me single penny and said to make another visit so that they could pay me. I think my own shop and a few shops in Pindi are enough to sell the book. They were insisting that its price should be raised upto Rs.50 or Rs.40. Then it should be given to the book sellers at 50% discount on sale and return bases. Dr. Zaki, how much hard is selling the books here if you are not the part of the book-maafia. They are to some extent right that they opened their businesses not for satisfying their spirit but bellies. Another matter with the guy who designed the web site is unfriendly now. As Zahra suggested I send her comments to him eg option for the guest book. But he is just avoiding. Anyhow, whatever the job he has done is also appreciable. I request APNA friends that if among you someone is expert of this job he should come ahead. Zahra, one lady came to Buddah carrying the dead body of his child and placed the body in the feet of Buddah and said, "You are saint and great man and close to almighty God so please make him alive." He assured her that he would help her but he also asked her to bring for him some mustard seeds but from that house where no one ever had died. She went from door to door and asked for the mustard seeds but with the condition. Finally, she came back with empty hands and silently took her child to dispose her body. Zahra, "And those, who have passed away, will never come back but the people ask us." Thanks for the patience to read my long post.

Agar tussi meree post pardhoo tay tuhanu pata challay ga kay main lafaz “kadi kadi” da wartaya si – menu changa tay nai lagda kay baithh likhhiya galaan day nataray karda phiraan per tusaan majboor ee kar dita aay

Tussi aynou CRITIC kayhnday oo – kay koe bunda apni kitab nou web tay lay aaway uss nou aay kayhna kay wai tou kitab nou aynj liaa kay RESEARCH ENGINE ohnou access karay aur Punjabi research karan wala oos tou fayda chukay – hun ess kam lai RESOURCES chahiday nai – KALA PUNDA ki ki karoo – ohnay tay okhay sokhay ho kay kitab nou ekitab banaa dita aay tussi ohnou eWork wich badlan lai madad karoo MAGAR tusaan tay matt daynday oo jeydree matt maar tay sakdi aay wadaa nai sakdi

tussi aay qisa tay sunnaya hona aay kay ek bunda khhotay tay samaan lay kay ja rayha si lokaan oo banday aan matt day day kay khhota ous noun chukka ditta. Tussi tay Saeed Saab naal aynj na karoo – ous ONE MAN ARMY nou changay kam karan deyo aur ous da hosla wadao – jay kujh ho sakda jay tay karoo per ayhoo jayha nai kay kitaab uttay tuha naam howay aur tussi puchhday phiroo ka page 4 di samajh nai aai

aay tay aynj ee hoya kay TAGAYAAN NOU LAY GAE NAY CHOR TAY HUN WAIKH MERIAAN PHURTIAN – ess da matlab aay kay jis banday nou kissay rakhi bayaa tagayaan di oo soun gaya tay chor tagay lay gae – uthh kay malak kol gaya tay kayhn laga wai tagay chor lay gay hun waikh main ounha nou kiss phurti nal phadr na waan. Tuhada swaal kitab review karan walay nai hona chahi da si?

Regards

TAMAASHBEENAA da dayraydar

As regards to the suggestion of not using "Urdu" or "Hindi" language on this forum, it appears to be a frivolous issue. Urdu and Hindi both or very close to Punjabi language than English, which is the major means of communication on this forum. We certainly need to feel very strongly about our Native Language (Punjabi) and culture and its promotion, however, in a non-chauvinistic positive way.

Waris Shah Jo Gayae So Naen Mur'Day

Loak Assan Toa Ayoana Bhal'dae Nee

I understand the first line, but I do not understand the second one and the link. ?

I did not understand both the english as well as punjabi context. There is something either missing there or my comprehension failed. Thanks.
[From the desk of Female Militant Learner]

For everyone's sake Pls. refrain from labeling other respected fellow readers with word's like "Tamashbeen".Also try to put Punjabi in your posts instead of URDU when you express yourself in a language other than English.
Regards

Regards

Rabb Tuhadi vadhi umar kare te tusin ese taran sohne phul vand de rawo. Khushi rawo mere veer.

3rd page te kujh iss taran de lafaz Guru Granth Sahib 1412 page te vee hanH . jo bilkul melh karde hanh.

JauN TauN prem khelan ka chao, sir dhar talli galli meree aao, Itt marag pair dhareeje, sir deeje kaNh naN keeje.

Mere kolle " Vaddi Heer Waris Shah" di gurmukhi lippi vich hai te mein uss vich eh cheejaN labhan lagg pia. MenooN eh patta vi nahiN si ke Waris Shah ne Sufi Kalam vee likhi si. BaRa hi suwad aaya PaRh ke. Rabb Rakha

I am sorry your post was way off. And the critic in me is not only a critic. I am sorry if you have nothing constructive to add. Probably that is because you belong to the "Tribe of Tamashbeen." :) Aha, I am sorry Sir, I completely forgot that Aap Kaa Taaluq Qabeelae' Tamashbeen Sae Hae. You are welcome to keep your wastaa unaa' dae naa'l tae' maenoon maerae haal chud deyoa. Let's respect each others' affiliations and stance. In other words, Gandhi Ji says: In order to creat change you have to be that change yourself. I will give an example: I believe that a woman is equally capable to do well in today's business world. A woman has the capacity, the caliber and above all the intellect to strategize as well as implement value added solutions. Now, I can be very happy in the thought that Oh, women have achieved so much. I can also crave to be somewhere without working hard. Point is, if I want to create a change in the perception or anything else, I have to match my words with my action.

Your example lacked susbtance and showed the pessimistic approach - typical of tamashbeens. That's why I have very litle tolerance for men whose actions and words are not well aligned. As a believer, I would re-emphasize, as a believer, it's my faith and core belief that you do not need an army to creat the change. You do need good people whose inside is what their outside is; whose heart and mind are well aligned. There are no contradictions. Who talk about their desires and hopes and aspirations openly. By doing that, they invite others to join them in achieving their objectives. Rest is on those others, if they feel like joining the batallion or staying in the trenches. In your case, I strongly suggest that you stay in the trenches. Oh, please keep on drawing pessimistic scenarios there. :) Nothing is said to offend you, but it was stated to get you out of that circle. May God give you the strength to make that change :) Beyond that I have nothing else to say.

Na mai sussi
Na mai sohni
Na mai heer sayal
phair we sajna
dil kyouN mera
Ja lagayaa teray naal

sussi rayt thhalaaN wich saR gae
pyar day naaN nouN uchayaaN kar gae
mai na turna ous di raahwaiN
na baba na hi mai mar gae

dil paya sunn sunn
kambda mera
ous tatRee da haal
phair we sajna
dil kyouN mera
Ja lagayaa teray naal

sohni wich chanaaN day ruhR gae
chhad kay ishq day qissay tur gae
mai na turnaaN ous di raahwaiN
na baba na mai taaN muR gae

touba kar di
kunn pai phhaR di
sunn tatRee da haal
phair we sajna
dil kyouN mera
Ja lagayaa teray naal

heer nouN kadoo zahr payaya
ishq nai hor we naam kamaya
mai na turnaaN ous di raahwaiN
mai naa khhatna maout da saaya

kat kat mar gae
heer wicharee
isq day wich janjaal
phair we sajna
dil kyouN mera
Ja lagayaa teray naal

I was finally able to go through your book on the link you provided. I can not comment about the website because I am not a computer guy but it seems fine to me. I was able to go page by page without any difficulty and without unnecessarily looping around as commercial websites do in order to maximize number of hits. I would have and I did congratulate you even without reading because Punjabi language is in serious need of creating literature. Once the quantity issue is overcome, quality could become more important. Thus publishing a book and making it accessible on Internet deserve appreciation unconditionally. I was expecting a prose with few chapters dealing with Waris Shah’s beliefs in some detail by you but it turned out in a different format.

Sufi Wisdom: Waris Shah

A Brief Review

This book is a collection of selected verses from Waris Shah’s poetry that deal with his beliefs. The translation is objective, concise and precise in general. A more appropriate title would have been: “Sufism: An Anthology of Waris Shah beliefs” because the concept of wisdom is weakened once his beliefs are corroborated with Guru Nanak Dev teachings who came roughly 300 years before Waris Shah. To make a case for wisdom, the corroborative quotes must have been from the intellectuals who came after him. It would not be wisdom of a person if he comes to same conclusions as his predecessors, particularly when coming to the same conclusions is achievable by reading and accepting the findings of earlier sages.

Waris Shah is often read for the beauty of his poetry and the saga of Heer. This book singles out those verses, which Waris Shah inserted as a matter of his beliefs. Whether it was the intention of the author or not, the book provides a unique glimpse of Waris Shah’s beliefs otherwise not generally noticed due to the focus and fascination with Heer.

Reading through this book, it dawns upon author that unlike many other well-known Sufis like Bulley Shah, Waris Shah was much less into the belief and practices of oneness with the Ultimate reality by any name such as wahdat-Ul-Wujood or Wahdat-Ul-Shahood. Most of the verses related to his beliefs deal with common sense, traditional moral and ethical values and emphasis on the worthlessness of the material world, known as maya in local traditions. Not only worthlessness of maya, he see nothingness of life and its visible manifestations as well. It becomes crystal clear that he was greatly influenced by the turbulent times he lived in as well as Guru Nanak Dev’s teachings, which were also strong on moral, ethical, worthlessness of maya, simplicity, humbleness and humility. Guru Nanak Dev made a clear break from too much emphasis on meditation and reclusive practices of oneness with God and Waris Shah appears to have followed that line.

It is very understandable if Waris Shah is judged within that timeframe. It was sheer devastation, disappointments and anarchy all over Punjab. The situation must have created hopelessness with the prevailing conditions creating fertile ground for detachment through believing worthlessness of maya. The Mughal Empire was practically collapsed, Ahmed Shah Abdali was exacting heavy toll through his repeated attacks, Sikhism was on the rise and challenging haphazardly through Sikh Misls for the supremacy in the region. Sikjs being natives and Sikh Misls playing much less havoc with the livelihood of people than Abdali and his supporters must have influenced Waris Shah tilting more towards Guru Nanak Dev style beliefs than mainstream Sufi infatuation with Wahdat-Ul-Wujood. It is great pleasure to write about similarities of beliefs of two famous sages of Punjab, though 300 years apart, on the birthday of one of them, Guru Nanak Dev.

Many people are well qualified and informed to write about the wisdom of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. The simplicity, hard work and humbleness of Sikhs is living testament to that but much less is written about Waris Shah along these lines for the reason I mentioned before (importance of Heer story). Moreover, his beliefs did not leave behind a legacy of his beliefs in the form of followers. This book provides a view about Waris Shah often missed before.

Having said all this, the legacy of Waris Shah will and should remain his beautiful poetry and much more importantly turning the character of Heer into an embodiment of the soul of Punjabi culture. Nothing and nobody represent Punjabi culture and Punjabiat as thoroughly as Heer. She is embodiment of love, loyalty, determination, active, responsibility, traditions, language, festivals, free spirit and freedom. Recently a Sikh friend of mine asked me to name 10 most influential Punjabi Muslims in the history. I placed Heer number one ahead of Baba Farid, the father of Punjabi literature. Almost everything about the culture and character of Punjab is condensed into the character of Heer. Of course, it is in part Waris Shah’s legacy to immortalize Heer.

So there you have it, Saeed. Your book might be better than you think, if read not for the sake of reading but for understanding the beliefs of Waris Shah and comparing them with the beliefs of other Sages of Punjab.

Bali Ji: Tuhaani tay baqiaan noun we wadayaan hoon guru ji day janam di diyaan

I would not say that there are many "weaknesses." I would say that when a book is published, the hard copy version vs. the electronic version has different requirements and audience. For instance, you would like to have your site shortlisted when someone conducts a research on Waris Shah on any of the search engines. By not giving out his bio, it would be difficult for any researcher or avid reader to know more about the poet. There was a question that was asked by someone who was doing a research on Punjabi. Well, just wait when you hear from someone inquiring about the comparison of the literary work of Waris Shah and Bulleh Shah. Everyone would not be able to have a conference call with Dr. Ejaz trying to understand the asraar'o'ramooz :) Also, having a guest book and comments space would assist you in getting the feedback and more ideas. This is not about your knowledge of computers. This is about your initiative and desire to use eWork for spreading the good word around and also overcoming your disappointment from those who could have done more but did not choose to. Remember, you were full of questions and concerns on the current stance of the language. Now, I'd go back to my previous assertions where I was challenged by some wisdom personified ones - Who has the power to make a change, to bring their idea into fruition, and to think and be able to present? And, I do not imply "ultimate" power, for that will be a foolish query.

I would also like to point out something that was brought up on this board a year or so back. I think last year there was a lot of hoopla yeh kyoun naheen ho rahaa, woh kyoun naheen ho raha. In other words, why is not the language getting promotion? Why is not so and so doing such and such? A lot of expectations from others than realizing one's own potential. I was ready to say a good bye for the rest of this year probably when I wrote my last italicized note. My intention on quoting T.S.Eliot was not for the heck of it. There was underlying sarcasm and you were the ultimate target. What a pleasant unfolding of events! :)
Take Care.

BAABE NANAK PEER DE PARKASH DIHADE DIYAAN SAB NU VADHAAIYAN

Thanks for your kind words about the Apna site. I belong to Apna's Washington D.C. Chapter. we hold our meetings every sundays for readings, discussions and introduce other projects that might help us to promote our Maa Boli. You can go to main page of Apna and all the way at the bottom there is a place where you can type your msg. for Mr. Safir Rammah Who is the co-ordinator of this site and ask him wheather we have any Apna chapter in your area.BTW I do have a comment about your line where you wrote"you are such a good indian" for your information there are lot of folks we have from pakistan who are actively involved in the activites of APNA. So It is my humble suggestion to you is to mention all of us as Punjabi not as Indian or Pakistani. I hope you understand what I am trying to say. Nothing against being Indian and so on but a generalised term PUNJABI is much more appropriate rather then Indian or Pakistani. If Any harsh words in my message please forgive me. I hope my message doen not dicourage you to come to the forum.

Sameer Jee, I am writing here again the link for you and want to read your comments please: http://www.warisshah.cjb.net/

Regards.

kidda shikra, likho punjabi, paro punjabi, vich punjabi gal karo

kidda shikra, likho punjabi, paro punjabi, vich punjabi gal karo http://www.apnahome.net/gtchat/images/wink.gif

.........GEET HIJAR DA ........

Maahya ho-o-o-o
Maahya ho-o-o-o

Ve. Ajje gal mokki neiN
....Ajje taNd tutti neiN
....... Jaa vasyooN keRhi thhaaNviN
....... SaanooN gor (qabar) ghamaaN piya paaNviN
....... Saadi jiNd nooN kyooN taRpaaviN
Maahya ho-o-o-o-o
Maahya ho-o-o-o-o

Ve. Saadi akh lagge naaN
... KitooN vaa vagge naaN
....... Teri mahak kitooN naaN aave
....... Pei rooh tatRi kumlaave
....... SaanooN kalyaaN kujh naaN bhaave
Maahya ho-o-o-o-o
Maahya ho-o-o-o-o

Ve. Saada dil lutya ee
... SaathooN jugg chhutya ee
....... Pei kooNj waaNgooN kurlaaNvaaN
....... Das keRhe paase jaaNvaaN
....... Aa sunn cha saadiaaN haaNvaaN
Maahya ho-o-o-o-o
Maahya ho-o-o-o-o

Ve. Saada saah vagge naaN
... Tera patta lagge naaN
....... TooN aaNviN ga kis vaile
....... Pei dhooNdaaN jungle baile
....... Hun JiNdRi Dukh naan jhaile
Maahya ho-o-o-o-o
Maahya ho-o-o-o-o

.........GEET HIJAR DA ........

Maahya ho-o-o-o
Maahya ho-o-o-o

Ve. Ajje gal mokki neiN
....Ajje taNd tutti neiN
....... Jaa vasyooN keRhi thhaaNviN
....... SaanooN gor (qabar) ghamaaN piya paaNviN
....... Saadi jiNd nooN kyooN taRpaaviN Maahya ho-o-o-o-o
Maahya ho-o-o-o-o

Ve. Saadi akh lagge naaN
... KitooN vaa vagge naaN
....... Teri mahak kitooN naaN aave
....... Pei rooh tatRi kumlaave
....... SaanooN kalyaaN kujh naaN bhaave
Maahya ho-o-o-o-o
Maahya ho-o-o-o-o

Ve. Saada dil lutya ee
... SaathooN jugg chhutya ee
....... Pei kooNj waaNgooN kurlaaNvaaN
....... Das keRhe paase jaaNvaaN
....... Aa sunn cha saadiaaN haaNvaaN
Maahya ho-o-o-o-o
Maahya ho-o-o-o-o

Ve. Saada saah vagge naaN
... Tera patta lagge naaN
....... TooN aaNviN ga kis vaile
....... Pei dhooNdaaN jungle baile
....... Hun JiNdRi Dukh naan jhaile Maahya ho-o-o-o-o
Maahya ho-o-o-o-o

Saeed bhra ji, wonderful job. bahut bahut mubarkkaN!

No organzation in Pakistan is made up of angels except military and mullah establishments. Too much focus on crooks in this or any other organization is a deliberate effort to defame and derail an anti-establishment group.

The WPC is made up of mostly liberal, secular, leftists and progressive Punjabi intellectuals and that makes them unpatriotic, unislamic and anti-Pakistan in the eyes of establisment.

The establishment allows two outlets for Punjabi intellectualism. First and preferred one is to be in-line with ideology of Pakistan, two-nation-theory, one nation, one national language and Ummah shuummah stuff. The topmost heroes of this mindset are Ghaznavi, Ghauri, Abdali, Iqbal and Jinnah. Punjabi language and Punjabiat does not fit in this strategy and accepted only as a rough spoken language. Those who wish to oppose this and raise the issue of Punjabi language, establishment allows an outlet. It is following Sufis, Sufism, Sufi poetry, Sufiana kalam sung by strange looking singers. The establishment does not have any problem with it and actually benefits from it in certain areas of foreign policy. The teaching and message of Sufis by the descendants of Sufis as Gaddi Nasheens, exploiting poor masses, winning election hands down by having a picture taken placing chadar on their ancestor Sufi's grave and then making forward blocks at the behest of government like Syed Faisal Saleh Hayat is highly desirable for establishment. The Punjabi activists following excessive Sufi path as model for Punjabiat is very pleasing for one and not so for other out of three religions of Punjab. For seculars and progressives, Sufi teachings are part of the religion and religion is a private matter. It has no role to play in public. This is pleasing and acceptable to secular, liberals and progressives of all three religions. It is this third religion that establishment hates. They would rather see an alliance of two against third and Sufism can be twisted to suit that purpose easily. It really is not that important for this World Punjabi Conference to take some concrete step or contribute. It is like the recent movie, Jee AyaN nuN. The publicity in the mainstream press of the issues of Punjabi language and Punjabat through WPC or Jee AyaN nuN is a winning marketing strategy.

Just go through the column of Ezaaz Aazar in the Daily Khabrain, Lahore about the International Punjabi Conferences organized by Fakhar Zaman in UK,Canada or Bharat. He criticeses Fakhar in a polite way that the participants of these Internationa Punjabi Conferences are mostly lowly people (Mr. Aezaaz gave the name to them adbi maafia). Fakhar Zaman likes such laee-lag people who even are not committed with Punjabi cause. They beg chaNdaa when they go abroad but do nothing for the language. Here is the link to read the column. It is my request to Safir Rammah that please such column in your front page of the site. The link: http://www.khabrain.com/dhiaannagar.htm

Dullah Bhatti jee, mobile phone laee "totaa" naeeN je ho sakdaa. Bilkul naeeN. "totaa" taaN aggey ee baRyaaN shevaaaN da naaN ey. Tusi ajj toN mobile phone nooN "DaDDoo" keNaa sharoo kar deo. MeN taaN kal daa ehnoo DaDDoo ee aakhee jaa rehyaa je APNA friends choN kehRaa kehRaa mobile phone noo DaDDoo aakhe gaa? Elaan karey.

Regards

Dullabhatti ji, sorry, aaj studio ch Harbhajan M.aaya see, Monday sahee, 1 dee thaaN 2 sunaa daongee.....

Vijay. Thank you for your kind offer to send a copy of the Hans Raj tape. I will try one more time to find a copy in LA. In spite of Dulla Bhatti's observation, I cannot believe that California can be behind the East coast in any way. Except time.

doja "mobile" waaste "phharaatal" ya "phharatoo" vartya ja sakda e.
"Steering" waaste "car-ghamaoo", "car-bhawaoo" ya "car-moRoo" jeye lafz varte jaa sakde neiN. Baqi phher.

Farani Ji!

Eh Mush kih kari jaa riye
Kidi daaRhi phhaRhi jaa riya
te kidi Gutt phhaRhi jaa riya
Te pichhooN chamchiaaN nooN
holi holi ugge kari jaa riya.

Suman, I've not heard of that video, but it sounds great, I'll have a look for it. Another I hve you may like is 'Trinjan'. Looks at the different songs and giddha/nach girls do at different stages in their lives.

Dullah Bhatti Jee,

jeeveyN computer which goryaaN ne curser-pheroo da naaN "mouse" rakhya ey inj ee mobile phone da naaN DaDDoo (frog) rakhya ja sakda ey. Tusi amrika beThe til lao te aj toN apne "mobile phone" nooN DaDDoo kehN*aa sharoo karo. Ho sakdaa eh naaN ee pooree dunyaa wich chal pawey.

Mera khiyaal e ke jehRey lafz (shabad) Punjabi wich angrezi toN aee ja rahe nayN ehnaaN nooN auN* deo. Ehde naal jehRee vith dohaaN paNjabaaN wichkaar Hindi ya Sanskrit te Arbi ya Farsi paroN paee jaa raee see oh muke gi. Kher eh taaN see sanjeedaa gal. Hun Dullah Bhatti ne kujh lafzaaN nooN panjabi wich dhalan de gal keetee. Eh kujh sittey wekho:

- Cell(mobile) phone : pheroo phone ya fer makhi, chimRees, chamooNaa taaN naeeN ho sakda. Dullah Bhatti Ghor kar

baby seat in car : Nikke de seat, nikki dee seat.

- steering : GaDDee moRu

- Toaster : tos pakaoo

- Cheese shredder : panir bhanoo

Dullah Bhattee je lafz pasaNd aon taaN aggey nooN reRh deN*aa.

http://planetm.indiatimes.com/music/PlanetMMusicNewRel.jsp?catid=6 but it seems they only have cassettes. It may take a few days to distribute through North America, it was only released a few days ago. Let me know if you can't find a copy, I'll send you one.

- Computer mouse
- Cell(mobile) phone
- baby seat in car
- steering
- Gear
- Toaster
- Cheese shredder

more later

Kujh din pehlaaN assiN ik store te phhir rehe saaN te othe meiN 'back scratcher' nazar piya jehRa lakRi di ik diNdi de agge chhota jia teRha kar ke puNja banya hoya si. VekhdiaaN saar mere mooNh chooN nikla "Khhurkoo" yeni 'khhurk karn wali cheez'. Hun saade ghhar ohda e pucca naaN pe giya e. Saada America vich jamya palya muNda vi ohnooN 'khharkoo' ee kehNda e te saade saare milan waale vi.

Ese taraaN assiN 'Towing truck' nooN "dharooaa Truck" kehNde aan yeni "kaaraaN nooN dharoon wala truck".

Ese taraaN "Vacuum Cleaner" nooN "ghatamkoo", jehRa ke "ghatta makaoo" tooN banya.

Bali Ji! BaRi saoch-vichaar de ba'ad "Sonakha" de lafz tooN ik matlab niklan da idraak hoNde. Kidhare eh lafz "Sohna" te "Akh" da joR te neiN. Jis da matlab hoya "Sohn Akha" ya "sohni akh wala". Es taraaN "Sohna te Sonakha" da akathha vartana vi thheek lagde.

Main teri 25 october di chitthi parh reha c. Jo urdu(shahmukhi) sikhan di tu gall kar reha c. Oh te ise tarah ho sakda hai ke england di ik site hai punjabielm hai os te ja ke koi jaankaari mil sakdi hai. te starter kaida vagaira mil sakda hai. give it a try. Te je gall nahi bandi te 1 din wait kar main os website da pata labh ke pher post kar devanga. je pher v na gall bane te pher sohneyaa ja vadi kise Masitey te ja phadeen kise Moulvi ji nu. Shaayad tera bhalaa ho jaave.-))

Baaki teri kall di post de nahore so saareyaan da ethe english vich punjabi type karan da vadda kaaran eh hai. Ke es forum te saare lok vakhri background de han jis de base te tusi lipi sikhde ho likht padt karan lai. ik angreji hi aisa medium hai jis vich asi aapni boli likh sakde haan te Har punjabi is nu padh ke saari samajh sakde han. Misaal Lai je hun gurmukhi font enable kar deiye is forum te. Taan jo lok gurmukhi pardeh ne ohi lok is forum te interaction kar sakange. Te jo saade Humsaaye han ohna nu dikt aaouni hai. ise hi tarah je shahmukhi hove forum te. Pher saade varge loki Jhaakan ge screen val. so haal di ghari Angreji naal sab da Jhatt langhi jaanda hai. Is masle te v ethe kam ho reha hai so let's see ke ki anjaam hunda hai.

Vaise ik gall sanjhi karna chahunda haan ke Meri Maama v tere seher da c. Moge da. Changa beliya pher gall baat hovegi tu raj-raj maan aapni dharti nu. SAANU V TAANGH REHNDI HAI DES TO AAOUN WALI THANDI HAWA DI Time to go Panjabradio te Asa Singh Mastana Da gaayeya SHIV da geet Arthi aa reha hai time to indulge in the divine voice and fine piece of poetry

Sonakha does not need a separate meaning. It is a Punjabi vocal style to add similar word after another meaningful word. Sohna sonakha is in similar style as bhul bhulekha and many other similar two word combinations where first word becomes part of the second. Sonakha is basically sohna-kha just as bhulekha is bhul-ekha after bhul. Bali, use solakhna for those who like solakhna over sonakha; sonakha is fine with me.

You have described the word Solakhna accurately. IN our home we use both words, although in Lendi Punjabi Solakhna is used more often. But connotation is some what different although vey similar, atleast in our houehold. Born in West and brought up in the heart of Malwa(between Ludhiana and Patiala), the word Sonakha is used for both external and internal beauty (describing somewhat goodness). Bride/groom if described as Sohna te sonakha is all inclusive. Solakhna is some what similarly used but also to include, BhagaNwala.On the otherhand as Bali Ji said, may be same word used in different cultures for same expression. Leaving for a few days, Rabb Rakha

Sameer, lae...haun pata lag gaya naa, ki meiN kehra peeniaaN a, jaaN bahuta khyaal rakhdi a ki kehri kehri sharaab manufacture hundi e.

Suman, thanks I have seen those ones, you have to watch Door naheeN Nankaana' if you haven't seen it, I loved it.

Sardarz, the movie is based on the very same novel written ny Khushwant Singh, I should hopefully have a copy in the next few days.

Bali. Somehow I have a bhanak that Train to Pakistan was made into a film but it was either not widely shown or - there was some problem. If you get a hold of it that would be great. One film that I would recommend is "Ek Chaadar Maili Si". It is in Hindi but based on Rajinder Singh Bedi's oustanding Punjabi novel. It stars Hema Malini(iddly lady oddly enough) and Rishi Kapoor but it has retained the spirit of the novel very nicely. 'Heer Raanjha' made by Chetan Anand is absolutely wonderful and the whole film is in rhyme to boot! Sorry, I know you did not ask about all this stuff, I just got carried away! Watching a nice film is always a joy.

Sardarz: Punjabradio is addictive. It is that good. Their format and variety of programs from old songs, to movie songs to modern songs with call-ins, interviews and live broadcasts even of kabaddi matches in Rome, Oslo and other places are amazing. The running commentary of kabaddi matches is one of a kind experience.

Thank you for your kind words.

Sardarz Ji:

Almost all of our relatives from Sheikhu pura particularly Virk are now settled in Karnal District. But you know that I have a different interpretation of the well known expression " Jatt JattaN De Salhe te Nanee onaN Di Sanjhi". I am a Biologist by training and one biologist was giving a talk that he has calculated from Maternal DNA ,how for back we are related to each other. I got up and told him that every person in our village would have told you that. He said how, I repeated" Jatt jattan___". Our ancestors knew long time ago that we can trace our geneology from our Nanke. He laughed and I had a good exchange with him. It is true that our relationship can be traced through our Mothers and their mothers and so on. So Bhaa Ji we are all related to each other. It is only that we say Jatt JattaN--. what we mean is that all human race has their Sanjhi Nanee. Because Javed Bhara is from ChuhRh Kana area , he probably shares more genes with me. Rabb Rakha and I will miss you guys for a few days but you can be sure about one thing, that upon my return I am going to read all the postings.

Sameer Ji,
and poor me always thought good ole Johnny Walker manufactured four kinds of spirits Red,Black,Gold and Blue Label ;-)

Prem Ji,
Fir taan tuhaanu sadae naal vi gandhh banne payegi,saadi family Shekupurae ton migrate ho ke ayee si 1947 vich.Original homeland diyaan kanniyaan sunaa sunaa ke vadda kita si sadae Dadi jee nae.

Today at the local video shop, the lady was tracking down 'Train to Pakistan' (movie) for me, she told me it had a different label on it, as it had been banned, does anyone know anything about this? I've read the book and until today was completely unaware of the movie.

[zara sanu vee dasna ki kehri kharaak khaa rahe o aaj kal.]

Lae main kyuN dassaN ke meri khuraak aj kal samundoN paar tuN aandi aa,......Glasgow tuN, wadhya Blue Label Scotch Whisky......:-))

Gursharan Singh Ji: There are many more Punjaiat songs, such as Punjabiye zabane ni rakane mere des diye. Bali can fill whole page with songs from Gurdas Mann, Hans Raj Hans and others. Actually panjabradio has lately tilted quite a bit towards Punjabiat from purely Sikh radio station. Ehde ich mera koi kasur naeeN, sauN rab di!!! With their resources, I am going to request them to have updates and may be something live from World Punjabi Congress that will be held in New Delhi during the last week of December.

Just want to find out is there is any gurmukhi edition available of Salman Rushdie's Shaitaan ki Aaytten or Setanic Verses. If it does exist where I can get it or what is the best source. I have this book in english. I just could not get it. Es haalat wich kehnde ne ke jo cheez Maa Boli wich Asar kardi hai hor koi nahin. Thedaa lage te Hai Bebey hi niklda hai Ouch nahin;-)))

MuR kis rakhhna yaad

Aay Jug sadiaaN touN abaad
Aownday jaownday aadamzad
Kujh naaN qaid kitabaaN ketay
Baaqi tay saaray azaad

Chaar dinaaN da katth asaada
MuR kiss rakhhna yaad

Dukhh apna dukhh apna rayhna
PeeR apni nouN aape sayhna
Bayfaida nai cheekh chehaRay
Ki dasnaa ki dil di kayhna

Lung jaani jind shaad nashaad
MuR kiss rakhhna yaad

Honi jo oo ho kay rayhni
Labhni jo oo katni payni
Baywas jindRee day sab kaaray
Waat hamaari khhari adayni

kis paani ki aas muraad
MuR kiss rakhhna yaad

Sameer(energizer bunny) tusi te phatte hee chakee jande o, ehdher vee, te odher vee, zara sanu vee dasna ki kehri kharaak khaa rahe o aaj kal.

ADIOS

Mittro Aap sab da bada hi dhanvaad ke mainu kal de bade hi Daahde Monday blues vichon bahar Niklan vich aap sab ne badi imdaad kitti hai. Dulla Bhatti ji tohada thank you jo panjabradio da pata ditta hai. Aj jadon main pehli waar tune in kitta te yakeen karna jis gaane ne mainu welcome kitta oh geet sab naal saanjha karna chahunda haan.

Mera des mere dil-daaraan da
Rishiaan Muniaan Avtaraan da
Mera des

Mere desh ch mahek dharam di e
Ethe dhrti Aashiq jamdi e
Ethe nakhra e mutiaraan da
Mera Des

Ethe rehmat peer fakiraan di
Mere des mohabbat heeraan di
Saanu maaN hei ranjhe yaaraan da
Mera Des

Ethe ghar ghar pooja rab di e
Is dharti te akh jagg di e
Par dar v e talvaaraan da
Mera Des

I hope you guys like it. I know this song is relate to a diffrent geographic but the sentiments are so strong and so very related to punjab and punjabiat that I think this song should be included in the songs section about punjab and punjabiat. What you think Safir Sahib...

Bali Ji nen Sohna te Sonakha bilkul theek hi likhia si. Is te hore chananh Sameer ji hi paa sakde nen. Par is da matlub baRa doonga hai. You cannot translate it into just good ooking or something else.

mere sarir vich JhanaN (Chenab) di mitti e . kafi der pehlaN Jhanan Sadi jamin vich vagda si. Dasia JaNda ke Sangla Hill Daryaa vich dig paee si taaN us da Rukh badal gia si te phir Jhang vall moRh paa gia si.

JadoN mere pitta Ji Pakistan Gae , TaaN 3 Mahine taak vapis nahiN si muRhe. Har dost neN kiha ke ik hafta mere kol nahin riha , taan mein guse honvanga. Us da vi jee JhanaN di mitti vich hi si

JadoN tusin likhia ke tusin meree Nanee Ji de kol de ho , sada kudrti rishta banh gia. Jadon Rajeev neN kiha ke mera DADA Sial kot vichon aiya si taN us naal gandh bajh gai. Mera DADA vi uthe Jamia si. Jadon Sameer Ji neN kiha ke mein Faislabad vich Jamia si Taan us nall Gandh bajh Gaee te meiN puchhia ke kehRhe pind. MaaN pio di dharati bari piari lagdi hai.

Pehli vaar mera NaN Angrezi vich theek likhan di jach menoon Sameer Ji neN dassi hai. Gurmukhi te Shahmukhi vich TaN theek likhia janda hai ,par Angrezi vich Sameer ji nen bilkul theek dhang Naal likhia. Shukria Sameer Ji.

JadoN meiN is desh noon chalia Taan mere pitta Ji neN kiha ke Puttar ho sakda ke tooN Abdulla Khan di betti Noon milh paven. Paindoo lok sochde havan ke USA Chhota Jiha thaaN hovega. Abdulla Khan KahloN sade pind da ik Civil Servant Lahore vich si te phir Pindi badal Gia si. JadoN mein Zahra Bibi da NaaN paRhia te sochia ke ho sakda ke eh KuRi meree bhain hi hove. Jadon pitta ji pakistan gae si taaN Abdulla Khan nen dasia ke meri Betti america javegi. Bapu ji neN kiha ke Prem vi america javega. Phir MeiN Zahra Bibi nooN e-mail likhi te puchhia ke tuhade baap da Nan ki hai.Eh sarian gallan is lai ke mere maNh vich maan di dharti di kini tangh te bhukh hai.

Tuhada Bhara Prem

Janam BhoeeN di khichh te tahNg baRi qudarti jei gal e. BaNde di zaat di kart oos di janam bhoeeN de mitti-gaare te ossar di e. Oos nirmal Mitti-Gaare vich mehak hondi e ohdi maaN de piraaN di, ohdi jutti di, ohdi konyooN odhaRi chitti chunni di, ohde athharoaaN vich bhiji doaanwaaN di, Ohde hathooN pakki Gulli (tawwe te pakki chhoti jei roti) di, ("ammaaN meinooN chokha makhan la ka makei di roti pakaa ke de, meiN neuooN khaani eh chopRi roti, naale saag vich vi lup bhar ke paaiN, roze abba kehNde "Oye baraaN saalaaN da ho gaya eiN, kidi jaa ke hull nooN vi huth la liya kar").

KahlooN ji Bus. MaaN ji bohat yaad aan lag peye neiN. OhnaaN di yaad de waa’warole zehn de raRe medaan vich meri sochaaN noon bhoaatiaaN den lug peye neiN. OttooN akhaaN de pichhe dukkiaaN athhroaaN diaaN athhriaaN kangaaN sote ban ban phhuttan nooN ullar diaaN piyaaN neiN. Baaqi fer kidi.

Gursharan Singh Ji: MeiN tuhadi e-mail late paRhi, naeeN taaN wadhya mashwara muft dainda. Listen to Punjabi music on 24 hour radio from www.panjabradio.co.uk. They are also into Punjabiat and talk show with callers. It is good way to kill time and you can interact with them through e-mail with some sohni sanakhi DJs.....except one...:-))

Sunney Sunney Rahhaan Vich Koi Koi Paid e
Dil Hi Udaas e Ji Baaki Sab khair e

Jehra din v kisse paase to constructive na nikle te enjh lagda hai ki jindgi de 8 pehr Anyaai langh gaye han Ise karke hi dil udaas hai ji baaki sab khair hai. I am deeply under the weather right now. Tadke 5 vajey ton hi jeyon mohle dhaar Minh pai reha hai ke Kamm te jaan de mood na hundeyaan v Uth ke jaana pai geya(Rozi Oops... Roji Roti da savaal hai na) O Yaaro kithe gaiyaan oh Lamiyaan Lamiyaan Postaan Kujh Padan nu te mil jaanda c.

Bawa Ji kithe ho tusi
O Suman ji Kithe ho
O Zahra ji Kahaan Hai Aap
O Rabba eh ki ho geya kihnu waaj Maar baitha maaf karna Zahra ji Aap to khriyaa Chuti par ho. Sorry to disturb you.

Kujh rehndi khundi jaan Gaddi ne kadh ke rakhi hai. Sorry to put all that rubbish out over hare. but you guys are like my virtual Aapne Te Banda Apneyaan kol hi dukh farol sakdda hai na.

PHEWwwww What a Relieve. Jiven Kaalje ton MunN Pakka Bhar Leh Geya Hove.

Thats a wonderful idea. With the one that we did, One guy read allowed (bilal), Tejinder typed, and I provided moral support :-))

A quick note to those reading in vancouver, Harbhajan Maan will be at all showings of Jee aayaaN nu in the area at Cineplex today. Sameer/Dullabhatti I don't know about your area's but the movie was sold out for the first 3 days, every show here, with about 200 ppl being turned back on average each show, there is no sign of the rush letting up right now. There's no reason you couldn't do the same from a taped recording.

Mera Aapna eh sada to hi chaa reha hai ke kise v likht da gurmukhi vich te mai Ulathaa kar sakda haan. Although main ik slow speed typist haan is karke tohannu sab nu v slow hi padna paina hai.:-))Is kamm nu karan lai meri ik suggestion hai je aap lokaan nu pasand aave. Aapne hisaab naal ik tape record kitti jaave subject matter di Slow speed vich. Os ton baad os tape nu sun ke os da Ulathaa kita jaave bhanve kise v lipi vich.KI KEHNDE HO SHELL WE GIVE IT A TRY

KahloN Jee. I am sure Pakistani problems will not effect non-Western visitors. The impression of Sikhs has greatly improved over the years, (thanks to me..:)). Moreover, the current elections were a total Jatt sweep across Punjab no matter which party they belonged, though mostly pro-Musharraf. With such political situation, you should have no problem visiting your pind and other places in Punjab.

LAHORE: The Indian government bowing down to the pressure by the Sikhs has finally allowed 1,000 yatrees to participate in 533rd birthday celebrations of Baba Guru Nanak Dev Gee at Nankana Sahib, The News learnt on Sunday. Sources told The News that the permission was given to Yatrees after different Sikh organisations had threatened to stage protests in front of all embassies if they were not allowed to go to Pakistan before November 17. The threat was formally extended by Sardar Simranjeet Singh Maan, former IG, who resigned in protest against the Operation Blue Star on Golden Temple.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/xml/uncomp/articleshow?artid=27884633 ( 100 sikhs arrive in Pak)

Kudos for the lady raised in the west and still uses such a sweet sweet language as " Sohna te Sonakha". Can any other language matches the inherent meaning of this expression?

My reasons for not going to my Pind at this time are several, mostly personal and current situation in Pakistan is also a factor. My only brother who is 15 yrs. senior to me and my Uncle were going to go with me, but uncle won't be going with us. My brother is in India and taking him along is going to be difficult right now.I know there will be a celebration in our village when we go there. Half of the village is now "UP wallas" and other half is still of Kahlons and Bajwas.

LAHORE: Three thousand intending Indian Sikh pilgrims will arrive here on a week-long visit to participate the birth anniversary celebrations of Baba Guru Nanak, the founder of the Sikh religion, on November 13, a news agency said.

Ok now that I've said all that non-anonymously, just in case Harbhajan, Gurdas or their friends are reading, let me say you guys rock, appreciate all you do to furthur Punjabiat. How about a movie starring you both?

I'll be sure to ask your questions.

Dullabhatti: Naukarani was Satinder Kaur, wonderful emcee, and part time actress/law student, she seems to be in Vancouver a lot these days. There were also no fights, and at no point did we hear the famous line 'nikul baar je maaN da dudh peeta ee'. I agree with you guys though, we do just need to compete along the blockbuster theme.

RannaaN waalyaaN de pakkaN* prauNThe te chchaRyaaN dee agg naa bale.

feyr naaN laeeN, billo de ghar jaaN* da. (N* is for aRnoon's sound and N is for noon-ghunnaN's sound)

Please do ask him about his future program in Punjabi cinema and how can he contribute effectively and efficiently to serve Punjabi culture. Would he take risk of making issue oriented movie because with Punjabi good songs and jokes can be added easily in any type of movie. It is very easy to weave a story around less than equal treatment of women or decline in interest in Punjabi speaking in cities or both in one movie without compromising music, bhangra/ gidha, folk songs and comedy.

I agree with sameer that what is most important is movie being hit on the box office. for that there is usually to much stress to make some kinf statement thru the movie(like this one) and try ot make it different than Hindi movies...which is wrong step in my view..We all know that Hindi movies are lame but they sell..thats what Punjabi producers need to do....create a 3 hour fantasy in Punjabi and forget about any serious work..at least for the time being. Make a movie that sells...other things can follow later on.

Harbhajan has gone all out, although unfortunately the movie doesn't deliver on all the promises. Harbhajan was on TV doing an interview today across Canada, he is very charming, eloquent, and sohna sanakhaa to boot, so its not difficult to get people to listen to him. He made some very good points. Well he is supposed to be in your city tonight, isn't he? Tommorrow/or Monday he's in Vancouver and hopefully I'll get him before the microphone before he takes off some place else. I have a few questions for him, that have not been asked.

One interesting point Harbhajan made was that when he told anyone he was making a movie, people were really excited, as soon as he said it was Punjabi, the respone came down, and overall the answer was 'oh punjabi'...similar to when someone asks if it was a boy or a girl...and the answer comes..oh, its a girl. We have a long way to go. It stinks of insecurity doesn't it.

Saeed: That is a news to me. Given large Pathan and Urdu speaking population of Rawalpindi, it is heartening to see Punjabi greeting cards selling well. Actually interest in Urdu is declining due to interest in native languages and English. It will be fantasy to think that our little efforts have started bearing fruits in big way. I guess I am too rationalist and strict logician to accept miracles and it sounds a miracles to me. But we have to keep pushing it as much as possible. Whether in Rawalpindi or not, certainly in USA, Canada and Britain, Punjabiat is becoming a known without much opposition from any quarter.

Bali: I hope the movie succeeds but I do not understand why this movie is linked to Punjabiat much more than any other movie. I would blame Punjabis for not making Shaheed-e-Mohabbat and Shaheed Udham Singh box office successes. I thought both were beautiful movies, though low budget but much better than many Hindi movies. Low budget should not be so decisive. One small budget movie from Bangladesh has been nominated for Oscar Award this year. Pakistan has been making tons of high budget Punjabi movies but they have never sparked Punjabiat in any way. Why this particular movie, which is not an art movie, has such a high hope. I think it has to do with Harbhajan Mann making great personal effort in promoting this movie which is highly commendable. I think you had very high expectation about the quality whereas I clearly mentioned previously that making it a success at bix office counts more than quality. I talked to him via e-mail today and he agreed that image of Punjabi movies alongwith general interest in Punjabiat is his main goal too. The cost of this movie is about a million dollars and I am sure it will make more than a million dollar business given the music CD has been already selling very well.

Kala chola hizra da pake
rahal banaya zakhma da
rakh ke kalma sitam da tere
waq liya main dardan da

I have not seen that movie. My wife is going to Tronto next week and I will ask her to pick up from there. I do collect most of the Punjabi movies I can find. Thanks for the information

Tusi oh movie vekhi e 'Door naheeN Nankaana'? MeiN jad vekhi see mein vee bahut royi see. Tusi je dekhi te zaroor dekhni, je copy chaheedee hoyi te mainu das dena. Par je towada ehna jee karda apna puraana pind vekhan nu, tusi zaroor jao, apna ghar e, darr kaahda, naale PunjabiaaN da kamm nahioN darna :-) Sachi jao, dil de vich apni chaahat nu nahi dubayda..te vela te towanu vee pata ik vaar lang janda te bas...samjho gaya...

I went to see Jee AayaN Nu tonight, I have to say that my expectations were perhaps too high. As Punjabi movies go though, it was good. It explored heavily the problems non resident punjabi's face. When asked at one point why so many Punjabi's are leaving, the reply comes 'Baniye de putt hove te navi hatti khuldi e, jattaN de ghar putt jamme te zameen vandi jandi a'. By far Gurpreet Ghuggi was the greatest. Khair, tusi saariyaaN ne aap vekhni...mainu te maari toN maari Punjabi movie vee sohni lagdi e...par saadi te gal hee hor naa, zara dimaag de pech kasne vaale ne :-) Overall, in the movie they often missed opportunities to put across strong messages powerfully, it had many familiar faces as half of it was shot in Vancouver. Vancouver's audience was the icing though, they made the 3 hours really entertaining!

Janam asthanh di baRi Taangh hundi ae. Meri NaNi Ji used to say with pride that Sacha Sauda Gurdwara Sade pind vich hai (ChuRh Kana). One of my friend and his wife were born in a village near Sargodha. Both husband and wife share my name. Wife is Prem Latta and Husband is Prem Nath Dua. Both of them go to Pakistan frequently. Sometimes Prem Latta goes by herself every 2-3 years. Dr. P N Dua works with FDA in DC and last month they were visiting me and I asked Prem Latta that you were just 5 yrs old at the time of partition and hardly any body will know you and yet you regularly go to your place of birth. She said I just want To GO and see my Pind and people there are just as glad to see me and tell young people stories about our family and our "Hatti". I have also same Taangh in my heart to go to my Pind but have been postponing for so long and now the relationship between India and Pakistan are so bad, I am afraid to go there. I am glad that my father was able to go before he died. When I read Kaka Gill's poem about partition I literally cried. Then I remind myself about what Sameer Ji wrote some time back that most Pakistani were born after Partition and they don't have real feel about the relationship between the three communities. Those Bradaries that I dream of are not there and that makes me very very sad that people who share culture/blood and language cannot even see each other.Kismat dian gallan nen. Tuhada Bhara Prem

Now as for Hans album, ve tera dimaag sahi e? Hans Raj Hans ne Shiv de geet gaye haun, maare te hoyi nee sakde naa...tu vee bas...:-)

There is another singer named Mushtaq Malangi from Gujrat who is not as well-known. He sings folk songs, known for singing, "GhaRa wajda, ghaRoli wajdi,...."

Bali: WGKK-WGKF. The release of CD by Hans Raj Hans was delayed because of litigation with T-Series. Let us know how good it is before I go and buy it.

http://www.apnahome.net/apnaorg/music/nusrat/

BALI JI: I knew you will feel the way I feel any time I see that tape. My "NANI Ji" was born In ChuRh Kana near Nankana Sahib. In fact large piece of land that belong to Gurdwara is in ChuRh Kana.

Shukriya DB Jee for the links of Shiv Kumar Ji

Thanks a lot for sharing Shiv's Poetry sung by him.
Every time I listen to him in his own voice,I cant stop myself from wondering what kind of "Emotional Turbulences" this noble soul would have had gone through.Not only his poetry is haunting,his voice is full of "dard" too.
I wonder if he ever was able to meet his "Love" who is assumed to have migrated to UK after getting married?

Regards.

I watched the tape you sent me last night, and I cannot even begin to express my feelings after seeing it. Inj ho te nahi sakda, lekin jaapda see jiveN koi maaN vaajaa maardi hovE. Anyways I am a sentimental young fool, as many have pointed out here and there, and Inshallah I will stay the same. The rest if my thoughts are en-route to you via mail.

A jatha of 50? How ridiculous. It seems the powers to be are afraid of siblings connecting with one another.

Zahra, Happy Ramazan to you and all other APNA friends.

I am glad that you have received the tape. The quality is not very good, but I am sure you will enjoy the "YATRA". In todays Tribune there was a head line as DB Sahib had predicted that Vajpayee and Advani has agreed to allow "token" jatha of 50 to Pakistan.

Mairay gahr day wayhRay day wich
Ek boota kachnaar da si
Jis di chaaN wich jo we lungayaa
Waila kinnay pyaar da si

Ous bootay tay bayh kay punchhee
Gaownday geet si pyaraaN day
Oo din hunn tay beetay sajnoo
Aapas day aitbaraaN day

Souch da suraj yaad day shishay
MuR muR kay lashkaar da si
Mairay gahr day wayhRay day wich
Ek boota kachnaar da si

Ous bootay day thhallay sutayaaN
MaiN sufnay kaee waikhhay sun
Kujh naa waqt di mitti khhadaa
Kujh naa pay gaae laikhhay sun

Hunn tay pichhay rayh gaiyaaN gallaaN
Dard dhayaanay maar da si
Mairay gahr day wayhRay day wich
Ek boota kachnaar da si

Oo boota tay lokaaN puttayaa
Gahr maira we maithhouN chhutayaa
Jeen day rang tareekay badlay
Jee Jee kayh her bunday luttayaa

Ki aakhhaaN oo qissas kahani
jidaa her nukta dil saaR da si
Mairay gahr day wayhRay day wich
Ek boota kachnaar da si

Ajj day bootay garzaaN day sab
Pattay lalach marzaaN day sab
Ki dassaaN es jag day baaray
Badlay matlab lafzaaN day sab

hun dil baithha pichhlay wailay
aapo aap nataar da si
Mairay gahr day wayhRay day wich
Ek boota kachnaar da si

Here is another news clip about WPC conference in Delhi.
Sonia Gandhi to open Punjabi moot in Delhi
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/defaul...-11-2002_pg7_29
By Anjum Gill

LAHORE: Congress-I Chairperson Sonia Gandhi will inaugurate the conference of the World Punjabi Congress scheduled to be held in New Delhi in December this year.
This was announced by WPC Chairman Fakhar Zaman at a meeting of its advisory council here on Tuesday.
Mr Zaman also gave details of the forthcoming conferences to be held in Vancouver (Canada) and New York (USA) in May 2003 and December 2003, respectively.

He said these three conferences to be held in India, Canada and the USA would be high-profile gatherings, as prominent writers, intellectuals and important personalities would attend these. The scheduled 12 conferences would conclude by 2005, he added.

The WPC’s advisory council expressed satisfaction over the last conference that was held in London and appreciated the London declaration, which sent a message of peace.

The council adopted a resolution, urging Indian and Pakistani governments to re-establish diplomatic relations at High Commission’s level and issue visas to writers, artists and intellectuals and to those who have relatives in both the countries.

The council also called for restoration of air, bus and rail links between the two countries, urging the governments of both the countries to enter a dialogue to remove irritants and establish peace.

The council decided that it would publish a book containing the proceedings of the WPC 2001 conference held in Lahore. t also decided that it would establish a secretariat of the WPC in Lahore and equip it with all the modern facilities.

Another important project would be to have a global Punjabi weekly in both scripts plus English...it very well could be 3 separate editions but exactly the same content. That will bring all readers from different areas and backgrounds to, if not the same page and understanding, atleast to the awareness of alternative but common view about the news and current affairs.

again..big big talk but smal small walk.:)

Kahlon sahib, you have a very good point...I have a feeling Advani will let Sikhs go at the last moment. but it does raise an issue about the attendence for WPC moot from the Pakistan side. If that ban stays, this conference will be almost a failure...hope something good happens by then..but not much time left...only 6 weeks.

hey we can always attend the one in Vancouver...atleast we have a host there:)..roTi paani te milayga khaan nu:).

The below is from news a couple of days old.

Mr Simranjit Singh Mann, President, SAD (A) and member of Parliament, today again took up with Deputy Prime Minister L.K. Advani the issue of sending Sikh jathas to Pakistan on the occasion of the birth anniversary of Guru Nanak Dev — founder of Sikh faith on November 19.

Disclosing this here tonight, Mr Mann claimed that Mr Advani had told him that the issue would be taken up on Tuesday and he (Mann) will be informed accordingly. Mr Mann had already written a letter to Mr Advani on October 30 for lifting the ban on the sending of Sikh jathas to Pakistan.

Meanwhile, Mr Mann took strong exception to the Foreign Office’s reported objection to the lifting of the ban. Mr Mann disclosed that he had come to know that the office was taking the plea that all sports, cultural and educational exchanges to Pakistan stood banned. It was unfair to equate the jatha issue with the exchange of cultural troupes as the jathas issue involved the status of constitutional development of country under the Nehru-Liaquat Ali pact providing for four visits to Sikh jathas to Pakistan annually, argued Mr Mann. Sikhs were getting impatient and the Union Government must decide at the earliest otherwise our party would hamper working of Indian embassies all over the World for one day after November 8 if the ban was not lifted by then, warned Mr Mann.

About two weeks ago I had read in The Tribune that Advani had refused to allow Jatha to go to Nankana Sahib in NOvember to celebrate Guru nanak's B'Day. If that is the case, do you think he will allow people from Pakistan to come? If you have info on this , Please post it. I thought that not allowing annual celebration in Nankana Sahib was very extreme decision.

Dum dum wajda aay dhol
Bulaae dil sajna nooN kol

BadlaaN nouN tak jadouN nachday paynday mor naiN
Dil mera sajnaa day wal dayNday tor naiN

Bolda papeeha jadouN mitthay mitthay bol
Bulaae dil sajna nooN kol

Wass we naaN chalda tay dil we naaN mannda
Ishqay da chor buha dil waala bhunnda

Kook diaN koelaaN tay mann jandaa dol
Bulaae dil sajna nooN kol

Tthandi tthandi chanani ch udday chakor naiN
Dil utay uthhdi mabataaN day zor naiN

AssaaN we tay dil walay buhay dittay khhol
Bulaae dil sajna nooN kol

I just recieved the mail of Sajid Ch. He writes:

Dear Saeed Sb

AOA

Thanx for taking quick action.I was checking my mail this morning and befor i call that person he was here in my office.(Thanks to him).My friend will carry the books toi Safir Sahib and other friends will contact him so ask him to mail them books.

Regards

Sajid

The man (not known to me absolutely) did that wonderful and kind job. I gave him one book as token to perform this job and he honestly did that job wonderfully.God bless him. I am very much pleased and of course you all too. Punjabee eho jehey hundey neN. Shaalaa Wasdaa rahvey Punjab sadaa.

MeN taaN apN*ey waloN baRaa kamaaNDo action maaryaa per lagdaa ey kuj gaR baR ho gaee ey. Sajid Ch. Jee koee kher khabar de chado. Rabb kher karey, neeyataaN taaN THeek ee san. Hafiz Mohammad Saleem da Mobile Nunber pher likh rehya je: 0300-9692008:

Gursharan Singh: You are right about "TatRhi". It basically means "in heat" commonly used for receptive female desparate to make love. For animals it is in a particular season to get pregnant but for human, it is yearning for lover.

DullaBhatti: You did not select any role for yourself. How about Hero? I will be the villain who kidnaps the heroine and then gets killed by the hero but heroine is also killed. Then heroine number 2 enters after the interval and popcorn/Soda break. The heroine number 2 is christian so lots of problems but lots of dancing. In the end Hero sacrifices his sikhi and heroine changes her name from Paula to Pammi. The last song will be: rabba rabba meNh barsaa.......salee nuN ghar aali banaa

Mere Joga Amli da hi role de chadeyo. Asi v aapna ranjha raji kar lavaange You know craze to the lime lite or silver screen:-)

Sameer, its unbelievable, I didn't realise that both countries have a ban on each others movies, its like three year olds running these countries. (no offence to the three year olds).

Saeed ji, we are very grateful to you..sure for the books but even more for the feelings you have behind it.

Sameer: You are right about Punjabi movies having better chances of survival if they can be shown on both sides of the border. I think the best way to over come this hurdle would be to have the Film Company in Canada or USA and use resoruces(actors, direction, writers) from both Pakistan and India besides USA/Canada. That way from legal point of view it won't be Indian or Pakistani movie and from a social point of view it would be more acceptable to people from both sides. It would be hard to restrict a movie in which I am the villain, lyrics are by Moizullah Malik, dialogs written by Sameer(BTW it sounds a perfect name for a dialog writer), direction by Safir, codirector Javaid Zakki, heroine is Bali or Zahra(we will have to decide that by toss..or make the story in a such a way that it has two heroines. That should not be unusual for a Punjabi movie:)), music by Shikra and Bawa ji, second villain is Sajjad Chaudhary, dresses and setting design by Suman Ji....there are only 2 things left now...we need to find a producer who has enough money and a hero.... I have not found out yet how to fit Saeed, Prem Kahlon, Gursharan ji and few other friends.

Now another adventure is to find the addresses of these friends and sharing postal (ordinary book post if that is cheap in USA) expenditures. Remaining friends wait for some the next link. DEAR SAJID, Carry these books as a gift for all these Punjabies living far from their homeland. I hope it will also give you immence pleasure. Waris Shah oh sadaa ee jewNdey, jehnaaN keetyaaN nek kamaayaaN jee. Thanks.

Jis word di tusi quary pai hai Asal wich oh word hai "TATDI" which is used in sufi poetry. Meri Nimani jehi akal je dhokha nahi khandi te eh word shair Apne waaste use karde han aapniyaan nazmaan wich. is nu keh sakde haan os devine Khasam di yaad wich jhalli hoi naar jo ki os de didaar lai tadap rahi hai. Ose tadap wich baldi hoi oh aapne aap nu TATDI kehndi hai. Ik tarah naal eh sufiism wich aapne piyaare naal Ishq di intihaa wich paagal hoye murid di aapne aap nu ik naam den di sabeel hai. Je main kitey kujh galat howaan te koi sajjan theek karn di kirpa kare te bada hi dhanvaadi hovaanga.

Es masle te Nikki Jehi Samajh Rakhan Wala

Gursharan Singh

This movie must break even at least at the box office for the next financier to put his money into another Punjabi movie. Of course, the problem of breaking even or profiting can be solved with the blink of an eye if Pakistani Punjab allows Indian Punjabi movies to be shown in hundreds of cinemas across Punjab. What could be better than having a bilateral agreement between the cultural ministries of two Punjabs to allow import of 5-10 movies per year to each other's state. All foreign movies except Indians can be shown in Pakistan after going through censor process and same is true with India. What a shame!!!

Sajid, mundeya, beediaaN phir fookan lagg paya, tera kee hoga?

"Mere desh ke sher jawanoo
Mazdooro oar kisaanoo
Gehr gehr do yeh peghaam
Inqalaab ka laal salaam"
Other movies you mentioned are good. A new movie "SUR" is Good. If you make a search under "India Parallel Cinema", you can find some very good movies on social issues, usually not produced by the mainstream cinema. Anyhow, you must watch the movie (documentary) "bowling for Columbine" by Michael Moore

Seed Farina! I am planning to visit Pakistan in the mid-December for three weeks. Although I will be located in Lahore, I have a program to visit Islamabad.

Zahra, I haven't seen the movie you mentioned, although I don't watch too many Hindi films, I do try and get hold of those 'art' movies that deal with social issues. The last two both starring Nanditya Das, Bawandur (true story of a dalit women who was raped in Rajastaan and despite the odds fought for justice and the system), Hari Bhari(a tale of 5 muslim women I think in Gujraat) and tonight am settling in to watch Lal Salaam (about the nagaland struggle for freedom).

Happy Diwali Sameer and all!

The punjabi movie you guys are talking about. I have some info not about the story though. Famous Punjabi singer has a role of hero his name is Harbhajan Maan( The guy who sings Chithiye Ni Chithiye and famous Mirze di War) from commercial stand point I know this is the first punjabi movie which sells over sixty prints just outside India and promising to do good business in north america and UK and Canada as well. Lets hope for that. I for my self would like to see somthing sensible punjabi movie rather then Chaadre Wale Ghorriaan Bhjaa Ke Daangaan Naal Ladan Waley te Khetaan Wich Yabaleeaan Maaran Waaley. Not that I hate it but It look and feel so not according to the time frame. Just a question to ask Has anyone seen "Bend it like beckham" its a movie about a punjabi girl in UK who is crazy about Soccer. As a prespective from a punjabi and a progressive kind I like that movie. A strong statement by punjabi Female who wants to achive her goal in a western society. How family get to help her or discourage her is the MIRCH-MASALA so I dont want to spoil it for you people. go out rent it and see it.

Adios Gursharan Singh

Jind jaandi aa dol
MuNhouN munda na bol

Wad dayndi zubaan
Rakhhee dujay da maan
Payhlay galaaN nouN tol
Phair jeebay nouN khhol

Jind jaandi aa dol
MuNhouN munda na bol

Kad dil chouN saaR
Gudi pyaraaN di chahR
Under apna phhol
Phair dujay taatol

Jind jaandi aa dol
MuNhouN munda na bol

Jind pal nai chaar
MuR jaana ee paar
Bund akhaaN nouN khhol
Ke hayga ee kol

Jind jaandi aa dol
MuNhouN munda na bol
Kujh kar khayal
AyNwaiN gal na taal
Bayh ja dukhhiaN kol
Rab dayway ga mol

Jind jaandi aa dol
MuNhouN munda na bol

If your any friend or known person is visiting Pakistan please ask him to collect one book for each, the book on Waris Shah "GREAT SUFI WISDOM" compiled by me. If your friend is coming in any city of Pakistan I can send him the books via registered post. It does not cost me much just Rs.25/- whereas I am afraid of sending you this book directly so far because it costs more than ten books. I hope you will do this favour to me until I find somebody, kind person, who could carry for you such nice gift from Punjab. Best wishes. saeed,

Sajd Chaudhry: Your problem might be virus but mine is bulk mailing. I have been getting almost 50-60 e-mails trying to sell all kind of things. They are even coming from Nigeria and Congo, Africa. Change the service provider and get a new e-mail address, like I did. At least one e-mail address is safe from vultures.

Why am I making a big deal out of it? Well this is the first time, a Punjabi movie has been made with a sizeable budget, not just for Punjabi's to watch on video, but to release worldwide, all across India on the big screen, sharing the same space as any Bollywood blockbuster. A 'T' series presentation, the movie in Canada will be showing at Cineplex Odeon. A major step up for Punjabi cinema!

Watch out world, here we come! Can you tell that I'm excited by this news? I hope the movie lives upto my expectations, regardless though this is a step in the right direction.

Attention Please

Saeed Farani Jee:
After reading your post relating to book and the qabza groups in book business, the letter of Amrita Pretam came to my mind which she wrote to Inderjeed from Bukharest on 23 September 1967 - I am reproducing it for everyone interest:

Aaj meree haath say mera qalam chhut gaya………shayed aaj wo meray challis laakhh punjabioN kay gahrooN main ja kar unn say kuchh puchhnay batanay chala gaya hai….aaj maiN RomaniaN ki uss library maiN baittheeN hooN jis ka naam hai B.P.T yeah bablo Opaica Paintro Totaas ka ikhtasar hai aur ess kay moani haiN her insaan ki library.

ess library maiN publishers her hafta eik kitab shayaa kartay haiN. Her kitab 400 say 500 safaat tak mushtamil hoti hai. Her kitab ka payhla edition 75,000 ka hota hai aur her kitab kay kae edition chhaptay haiN …………. Kissi kissi kay bees edition bhi

yeah her hafta shayaa honay wali kitab kabhi kissi Romanian musanif ki hoti hai aur kabhi kissi ghair mulki kitab ka tarjuma…. Laikin yeah mukamal eshaat ka eik hissa hai. Mulki aur ghair mulki adab ko shayaa karnay wala … agar ess kay saath mulki eshaat ko bhi mila lia jaae to hisab banta hai her deRh din baad eik kitab ki eshaat.

1931 ki baat hai. Mulk kay eik azeem shayr ki eik kitab chhapi thhe jis a edition siraf 500 kapiaN thha. Chodha baras guzar jaanay kay baad kissi ko ess kitab ki zaroorat hoi. Uss nai kharidi tou maloom howa kay abhi tak wo 500 kapiaN bhi saari farokhat nahi hoeeN. Laikin 1963 aayaa to phir kaisay logooN ko ess kitab ki tishnagi hoi. Uss saal ess kitab ka dusraa edition chhapa….. 6,000 aur chapnay ka chobees ghuntouN baad ess kitab ki eik kapi bhi milna mushki ho gae. Phir ess kitab ka eik ar edition nikalna paRa ……….20,000 ……ar ab ossi kitab ka eik eiditon shayaa howa hai ………..80,000.

yeah sab kuch meree khwaabooN say mukhtalif nahi. Magar samajh say paray zaroor hai. Maloom nahi aisay khwaab samajh say paray kyouN hotay haiN.

1934 maiN bhi yeah khwaab hamari samajh say bahar thha. Yeah log kayhtay haiN or batatay haiN. Ab her Romanian payhli ko tankhwa lay kar sab say payhlay kitabouN ki dukaan per jaata hai. Ess saal kitabouN ki tadaad logooN ki maang per puri nahi aa rahi. Ess liay aglay saal say ham hafta main eik kitab nikalnay kay bajaae do kitabiaN shayaa kariaN gay… (mahNgi wali kitabiaN bhi chhapti haiN. 80 ya 100 laai tak ki kimat ki – laikin ess hafta-war chhapnay wali kitab ki kimat siraf 5 laai hoti hai)

khaab samajh ki hadood kay ander kiss tarah aatay haiN? Shayed apnay logooN say yehi puchhnay kay liay aaj mera qalam meree haath say chhoot gaya hai……………or yehaaN RomaniaN maiN baitthay mujhay youN lag raha hai kay ess waqt wo hairan-o-perayshaan Punjab ki galiooN maiN bhatak raha hai.

tumhari ……………….Amrita

ISHQ DI WAH BAI WAH

AkhhaaN wich tasveer teree
Dil wich tairee chaah
Pyar tairay naiN wallayaa choukhha
Payaa gal wich phhaah

Bhul gai duniya daari mainouN
Ishq di wah bai wah

Apni neender souN nai sakda
Aaown paae sufnay tairay
TouN hi ander touN hi bahar
TouN hi chaar chufairay

Tairay laai aay jeena maira
Tairay naaNwaiN saah
Ishq di wah bai wah

Tak tak tainouN ji na rajda
Ishq tairay da touNba wajda
Pyar tairay da chanan maira
Pal pal dil pyaa thhugda

Tairay wal her rasta maira
Jaownda her ek raah
Ishq di wah bai wah

TouN mainouN jis paasay laaya
Oo naiN oukhhiaaN rahwaaN
Tairay naal hi haasay mairay
Tairay bahj naiN hawaaN

Tairay naal hi jindRee jevaaN
Tairay bahj tabaah
Ishq di wah bai wah

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/index.html
Old enough to know some history
By Salman Rashid
Walking about in Lakho Dehar to discover... well, a baoli most probably from the Sikh times I met Abdus Sattar several months ago. He said his village of Lakho Dehar just outside the Lahore suburb of Daroghawala was an ancient village that I ought to see. There were ruins and ruins to check out as well as an ancient baoli -- a stepped well. The village, moreover, was situated on a mound which was sign of its hoariness, said Sattar.

A couple of weeks ago I went out to Lakho Dehar. I had called Sattar the evening before and told him I would arrive at eight in the morning, but when I got there fifteen minutes late, the good man was still asleep. Great start, I thought to myself. But out of bed and with some water splashed on his face in a jiffy, Sattar took me walkabout in the village. Chhutti Deori (roofed vestibule) was what he wanted me to see first. The building together with a clump of auxiliary structures could not have been older than a hundred and fifty years and was scarcely interesting.

Sprinkled here and there in the alleyways were other signs of older buildings: the small tile of the Mughal era with grafts of later bricks introduced during the Raj. But none were interesting and we moved on to the east side of the village. There, Sattar said, stood the gateway. An elderly gentleman joined us as we walked and said he had seen the gateway as a young man.

"You mean it's no longer there?" I asked.
"Of course it isn't. It was torn down years ago to build the mosque and madrassa," said the man.

Sattar bravely pointed to the place where the gate house had once stood in relation to the walls of the house on one side and the mosque on the other. I suppose that was the time disappointment began to show on my face and Sattar suggested we go speak to some "learned people" and hear some real history from them.

He took me to a large bungalow in the main street leading into the village from the west. The gentleman was a lawyer by profession whose family had lived in Lakho Dehar for a couple of hundred years and that, Sattar thought, was enough for him to be versed in the history of the village. Here we learned the village had a defensive wall and gates and that the Ravi washed its western ramparts. Those were the days when Sher Shah Suri built his Grand Trunk Road and started his famous postal system.

I wanted to ask if before nature invented the Pathan king we were all rocks or trees firmly rooted in perpetuation to where we were born. It seems that we had never felt the need to travel either for pleasure or for business, nor too did we ever write letters before the 16th century. Then all of sudden providence endowed us with Sher Shah and suddenly we had a road and a postal system and we were busy travelling and writing letters to remember his great endowment for the rest of time.

I have never ceased to marvel the way everybody attributes the Grand Trunk Road and a postal system to Sher Shah Suri, implying there was darkness before his time.

But I did not tell the kindly gentleman that we had been gallivanting about long before the 16th century and that we could only have done that with a full network of roads. Nor too did I wish to burden his mind with the fact that Sher Shah's Grand Trunk Road was simply the Rajapatha (The King's Way) that ran from Patna to Kabul as far back as the 4th century BC -- very likely earlier. I did not tell him that the great Chandragupta Maurya had a whole army of officials overseeing the maintenance of this road as told by the Greek diplomat Megasthenes who spent fifteen years at the Mauryan court. And I did not tell him that Sher Shah had not invented the postal system either.

But we thanked him for the tea and went to see old Ghulam Nabi. This man was so old, said Sattar, he was sure to know some history. Ghulam Nabi was about seventy and he only knew that his family came from the village of Ilowana which is now marked by a pottery-strewn mound some way off to the north-east. I asked if there was a story and he admitted there was indeed one.

"I'll tell you the story," said Ghulam Nabi. "But I can tell you only what I know," he added cautiously. How I ached to ask him to also tell me all that he did not know. Why, when our politicians, both civil and military, have spent the last fifty five years telling us everything under the sky they hadn't the foggiest clue about, I saw nothing wrong with old Ghulam Nabi expounding on the history of Ilowana or Lakho Dehar.

A sight better than the politicos, Ghulam Nabi said that Ilowana was a Gujjar village where the local raja once espied a pretty girl. He demanded her hand and the village sage advised the maiden's father to invite the raja in a wedding procession. Meanwhile, the Gujjars, on the sage's advice made a large pen with thorny jujube bushes ostensibly for the barat to be entertained within. When they arrived playing their flutes and beating their drums they were ceremoniously seated in the pen and the dry thorns set alight. The entire party perished in the fire and the Gujjars, fearing retaliation from the raja's family, abandoned the village.

I asked what the connection was with Lakho Dehar. Ghulam Nabi looked bemused. There was no connection other than that his family had come to Lakho Dehar after Ilowana was abandoned. Then suddenly he remembered he knew one story about Lakho Dehar as well.

He began with the preamble about being able to tell no more than what he knew: the village was founded by Lakho who was of the clan of Dehar. Point. End of Story.

The Dehars, incidentally, are a numerous Jat clan not akin to the Dahars of Sindh who are descendants of the Rajput Raja Dahar who resisted Mohammed bin Qasim.

Just when I thought nothing was coming out of this outing and that I ought to head for home, Sattar mentioned the baoli. We jolted down the narrow alley on his old motorcycle and out of the village towards a clump of trees about a kilometre away. The baoli was a mess. The local zamindar had added to the original pavilion above the top of the staircase leading into the well. The steps were choked with vegetation and refuse and it was nearly impossible to use them. But the well itself was interesting for its octagonal shape. Never having seen a well like that I assumed it was ancient. Moreover, the architecture, especially the shallow, rounded arches and the flattish dome, of the pavilion also fooled me. Unfortunately all this was rather disfigured with modern brick and mortar additions.

Sattar said I ought to talk to Dr. Saifur Rahman Dar who had visited the well many years ago. When I spoke to Dr Dar later, he was surprised anyone should remember his visit of 1985. But he very kindly gave me a paper he had written at that time. Entitled 'Five rare surviving Baolis of Lahore', it tells us that judging from the architecture of the pavilion the well could not be older than the Sikh period (1762-1849). Dr Dar, however, agreed that octagonal wells being rare in Pakistan, the Lakho Dehar baoli was an important monument.

We returned to Sattar's home for the final round of tea. He told me his street was once called Khatrian wali Gali (Traders' Alley) and that it was lined with shops and trading houses. He had had it renamed Mujahidan wali Gali (Holy Warriors' Street). The Afghan War had arrived, I thought. Sattar said he and several other young men of the street had voluntarily joined the army to fight in the 1965 war against India. It was because of their spirit of holy war that the street was so called.
"Some of those who went to the war from our street were killed which included me and my brother," Sattar said with a straight face.

It took me a couple of seconds to realise he wanted to say that some of those who went from his street, which included him and his brother, were killed. As I rode back home, I smiled thinking of the dead man who had told me tales. I continue to smile whenever I think of that outing. This time at the vehemence with which Sattar had insisted his village was at least one thousand years old because there were some families who are known to have lived there for about two hundred years.

Bali: Never mind! Hasan Abdal is not one of those well-known Punjabi cities that most Sikhs should be familiar with. It is too much north and west of central Punjab region.

Saeed Farani: Isn't Dr. Fakir a descendant of Faqir brothers, close associates of Maharaja Ranjit Singh?

Re: Shafqat Tanver Mirza's review. The publishing press came to India quite late because Mughals were either did not take interest or opposed it out of fear of spreading information uncontrollably. Publishing outside religious books, was essentially an elite occupation associated with the court. Only limited number of books would be published and distributed within the elite group. Quite often, the rulers will hire or sponsor intellectuals to write history of their or their family's rule. There wasn't much published except Tareekh-e-XYZs or Tareekh-e-Farishta with Ibn Sena's history perhaps the oldest one. British brought mass printing to India and rest is history.

Shafqat Tanveer Mirza ia passionate about Punjabi although some of his writings about mythical-part-historical origins of tribal affiliations are vehemently opposed.

As a proponent of Roman script for Punjabi, I may suggest publishing translation of your book or some other book(s) in Roman script? You will not need any editing writing Punjabi in Roman script and not to worry about favoring either or both Shahmufhi and Gurmukhi scripts. It would be a great step forward in clearly distancing and distinguishing Punjabi from Urdu/ Hindi as unique and independent language.

http://www.cybercity-online.net/Pakistan/Punjab/pages/hasan_abdal.htm

you can view more pics here

http://www.cybercity-online.net/Pakistan/Punjab/

I don't know the logistics of having the book on Desistore, but I would suggest if that comes to fruition, then make sure it is minimum 10 dollars. I am also posting a link for you and would strongly encourage to pursue this route. During the process of negotiations or clarifications, if you require any faciliatation then I will be happy to wear my facilitator's cap :) Here's the link:

http://www.desistore.com

http://www.desistore.com/poetry.html

PS: I am not entitled to comment on the sarvaraq of the book as I have not seen it yet. But I would strongly suggest having a female in your board of critics to give their buy in on the overall appearance and the design of the draft. Please do incorporate the superior artistic taste of women in the overall process :).

Regards.

Any plan to write another book about progressive Punjabi literary traditions or Punjabi politics in the light of current elections? Make sure to read B. S. Dhillon book before writing anything about Punjabi politics in current elections...*wink wink*. Take care,

I sincerely look forward to read and cherish your work. And, you need to take full credit for your efforts. No need to be humble there :)Leave the humility for some other time and place. Such efforts require a lot of time out from the hustle bustle of normal life and ought to be well appreciated and well regarded for their essence.

Best Regards.

Zaki Sahib: I will question the very first line – “shab draazi ka zahar” can come to an end and “sahar” can arrive, as it always does, long before the appearance of “Dhoop” which is a different state than the early rays of light or “KirnaiN” that are generally associated with the appearance of “Sahar.” Similarly, there are a few other derived terms (“TarkeebaiN”) that are questionable, i.g., “shouq-E-jigar” but may be, as Saeed Farani has correctly pointed out, we should leave it for some other forum, some other time.

.......... GHAZAL ............

KaheeN se dhoop nikle aor saher ho
Keh zaa'il shab draazi ka zaher ho

Hamaare hosale mad'dham paReeN na
Nijaat-e-bad’dili apni dagar ho

Koi saagar uchhaaliN chahatooN ka
Abad tak dosti madd-e-nazar ho

DhaNdalkooN meiN bhi rah bante chiliN geiN
Jo manzil ki talab shouq-E-jigar ho

Kisi bhi raaste pe gaamzan hooN
NigahooN mein UmidooN ka shehr ho

I guess you can read Urdu. In that case, if you read it as Faiz's reaction to receiving the VVIP reception and hospitality in Bangla Desh that he deserved as a celebrated poet, but still being treated as a "foreigner" in a land that was part of his country only a short while ago, and his reflections on the separation of Bangla Desh, you should easily understand the meanings of the poem's five couplets. Except the second couplet, all others can be read as any ghazal couplet without the political and historical background I have mentioned above. Here is the complete poem

Hum Keh THah'ray Ajnabi Itnee Madaa'ratoan Ke Ba'ad
Phir BanaiN Ge Aashna Kitnee Mulaqatoan Ke Ba'ad

Kub Nazar Main Aaye Gee Be-Dagh Sabzay Kee Bahaar
Khoon Ke Dhab'bey DhulaiN Ge Kitnee Barsaatoan Ke Ba'ad

THay' Bohat Be-Dard Lamhey Khatam-e-Dard-e-Ishq Ke
TheeN Bohat Be-Mehr SubhaiN MehrbaN Raatoan Ke Ba'ad

Dil to Chaha Per Shikast-e-Dil Ne Muhlat Hee Naa Dee
Kuch Gillay Shikway Bhi Kar Lai'tey Manajaatoan Ke Ba'ad

Unn Say Jo Kehnay Gaye THay Faiz Ja'aN Sadqay Ki'ye
Un-Kahee He Reh Ga'yee Wo Baat Sub Baatoan Ke Ba'ad

This is just a question for all. I always wanted to learn shahmukhi script because it is a another tool that you can equipped yourself with to have your share in the wholw wide world of literature. my question to all is that like to learn gurmukhi is seem so simple. in the new style kaida you will see the Akhar and corrsponding word of other language beside it and same is for the sound and so on. so people can see the resemblence of the alphabets. To me it is a really good way to learn one language. Up till now I am yet to see something like that for shahmukhi or may be it exist but I am not aware of it. So I think let start a dialouge in re: to this matter. Because I storngly feels that once we discover this starter stuff for shahmukhi lot of people will benefit themself and let's hope the glitch for translation will be easily resolve as we see on the front page of APNA. I know there are lot of linguists are out there who hava a tendency to present you a deep down way too much information about not being able to make some sounds of punjabi in shahmukhi. But this should be a secondary matter to the first time learner.

O YAARO JE KOI SHAHMUKHI DA KOI MASOUDA MIL JAAVE TE KUJH AKHR UTTHAOUN JOGE TE HO JAAIYE.

RAB RAKHA

http://www.google.com/intl/pa/

Jatt-bashing is just a past-time of some malcontents who take the pride from myths of superior births and other such gibberish. It is not the idea behind researching our roots, and common heritag,Trials and tribulation of our set of people is to understand ourselves more than anything else. Common culture more than colour of the skin is what keeps us togather as a group. Similarly British or any other peoples are not inherently evil as our caste-friendly, inferiority ridden bretheren would have us beleive. Jatt has no cause to celebrate or shun relationship with europeans, but facts remain facts. The propagators new hindutava history coined by the RSS and some other hate-mongering idealogues is offset by the jatts refusing to be the head-lice of some creation myth of theirs, they can write or say what they like to their heart's content, but scythian origins of the jatts is not going to change because of their whining or wishful thinking - because it is so. What has divide and rule got to do with the fact most of our last names and clan-names resound amongst other people who started from the same areas. How does being imprisoned on the indian subcontinent serve the history? Do you realise how many mongolian kangs there are , or hungraian sandus or british gills? Sorry if the brahmins shunned us and our heritage remained intact for us to piece togather (not to mention records of indian/non indian sources). Now it is a "phoren" conspiracy!!! What next - they will want to somehow change our features general characteristics to suit their "theories". We do have very long and established cultural value system they have to contend with first.

Why is the moon the moon, will it become the sun just because it suits some in their scheme of things? It is very flattering though that a whole web-article has been devoted to stop us from being related to central asians - That is why we jatts are so proud of ourselves - how many others can evoke such a response. We have again managed to crawl out of shivji's jattaavaan! Carry on bros!

maanas janam dubaara paavaN aiss hi desh Punjab ch aavaN. vaddi-tukki dharti te vaddi-tukkey ghar vich vaddi-tukki jaat da mein akhvaavaN birchh(tree) nipatrey(without leaves) te panchhi chandra ohi O geet vigochey de gaavaN

Here is some more parts of his poems I saved in Roman long time ago:

(A)********
UkhiaN ch UkhiaN nooN paa
********

ukhiaN nooN ukhiaN ch paa.....
manniyaN ke ukhiaN ne tooney hariyaN, laindiyaN ne man(dil) bharmaa,
manniyaN ihh ukhiaN ne rugg bhar laindiyaN, lutt putt paindiyaN ne raah,
manniyaN ihh deeno karn be-deena, Rabb nooN dain bhulaa,
manniyaN ke daaru(sharab) da peen na changa, te ukhiaN ch rehnda nasha,
pher vi ukhiaN ch ukhiaN nooN paa....

ukhian nooN, jeeveiN(like) saar hijjar di, ukhiaN de dukh asgaah(big, vast, deep),
ukhiaN de baajhoN kehRa mehram te gamm da kaun gwah,
ukhiaN ch jeeveiN soohey soohey sufney, ukhiaN ch lammey lammey raah,
ukhiaN de baajhoN sehas(dense) hanerey, nehreyeaN da kaun vasaah(bharosa),
sajjan ve ukhiaN ch ukhiaN nooN paa.....

(B)********

raatiN tareyeaN de naal asiN gallaN keetiyaN....
ohna sunia, sunaiyeaN asiN jo jo beetiyaN....

saadi gall sun ambraN di ukh dull gai,
tara digga ohdi ugg wali gand khull gai,
kehnda nikki jihi jind teri, kiveiN rull gai,
kiveiN mitti teri mahurey(poison) diaN bukkaN peetiyaN...
raatiN tareyeaN......

(C)*********

tooN tureyON te suraj asatiya, koi giya hanere dohl.
asiN takva lai ke ishaq di kull kalakh ditti phol.
asiN looN looN geet jagaiyea, jihdey kismat varge bol.
auh tare saadi muthh vich auh deevey saadi jhol.
kull kismat saadey vall ve, ikk tooN na saadey kol.

(D)*********

jadoN tak damm ch damm baaki rahega.
mere nainaN ch namm baaki rahega.

hunney mar javaN jaaN rata vishvash hovey,
mere pichhoN na gamm baaki rahega.

miley gi laash manjil kol meri,
koi ikk adh kadam baaki rahega.
(E)*********

kitthey gaiyeaN bhehna, te kithey gaiyeaN maavaN?
thall(desert) vich SassiaN jhall(jungle) vich HeeraN,
SohniyaN paiyeaN vich daryaavaN.

kithey gaiyeaN galliaN bhalliyaN bhalliyaN,
jis ghar chaahaN aavaN jaavaN.

har ikk ghar di khaas nishani,
har ikk ghar da apna naavaN.
hunn taaN ikko jihiyaN sajjiaN(made up) shaklaN,
patta na kehRey naoN bulaavaN.
bhehn kahaN taaN dassna painda,
apni neeyat da sirnaavaN.
sabh jag hoiya mard janaani,
baaki sabh chhaavaN parchhaavaN.
kithey gaiyeaN bhehna te kithey gaiyeaN maavaN?

(F)**********

kaun ihh boley
howley howley
ohley ohley......

kadi taaN jaapey door duraadey,
kadi sunida koley koley,
ohley ohley.....

pardesaN vich satt paraiya,
mere desh di boli boley,
ohley ohley....

janam janam dieaN peech-peechiyaN
gandaN kholey poley poley,
ohley ohley......

mainu jaapey mera lahoo hi,
ohdiyeaN naaRhaN piya faroley,
ohley ohley.....

ohh mein doveiN, ohh mein ikko,
aad(beginning) zamIn vich kheley doley,
ohley ohley.......

ZAVED Bhara Ji: I have another question for you on this I know in folk songs Jagga is idealized and most people mourne his death in songs like Jagge Jatt da Janghia Patt Da, Killi naall Tangia Riha (after his death), but how about; Jagga Jamian BoRh di chhaveiN te Ik MaNh ret Bhij Gai. Don't we also make up things to show our reverence and respect for his bravery

A sad News to convey according to a news on ajeetweekly.com today Dr.Harbhajan Singh a famous writer in Punjabi and Hindi is passed away. He wrote over 300 books. got awarded with couple of awards. Has anyone know about this writer please shed some light on his writings and his work.

A sad News to convey according to a news on ajeetweekly.com todayDr.Harbhajan Singh a famous writer in Punjabi and Hindi is passed away. He wrote over 300 books. got awarded with couple of awards. Has anyone know about this writer please shed some light on his writings and his work.

A sad News to convey according to a news on ajeetweekly.com todayDr.Harbhajan Singha famous writer in Punjabi and Hindi is passed away. He wrote over 300 books. got awarded with couple of awards. Has anyone know about this writer please shed some light on his writings and his work.

Jugge maarya loyalpur daaca
e chhaviyaaN de phhul tut geye

Jugge jut de kabootar cheene
Te nediyaaN tooN paar chugde
.... Juggya tur perdes giyooN
.... Boha vajya

by MEHMOOD-UL-HASSAN

It has now become popular even in Pakistan to make musical videos. There are many musical videos are being going aired from the different channels of PTV. The video 'Supreme Ishq' is breaking all the record of popularity in the country and around the globe. It has been made with the courtesy of Supreme Tea. It is indeed a masterpiece made by full of devoution and sincerity. It is the reflection of love and commitment. It is message of hope, struggle and freedom. It is the memorandum of spirituality, humanity and universality. It is the likeness of blamelessness, innocence and true fervor. It is creation of the versatile producer and director, Shoaib Mansoor. It carries uniqueness, class and objectivity. The one and only the great Shoaib Mansoor have portrayed the real message of sufiism i.e. religious tolerance, love for humanity, service, societal harmony, brotherhood, simplicity, and real, pure and complete submissiveness towards God, skillfully shown in the video "Supreme Ishq". All the locations, sights and computer graphics are used with full of care keeping in view the objectivity and universality of the messages of Sufis. The lyrics are excellent, popular, simple and influential. The lyrics have been taken from the collection of Sufi poet "Bulleh Shah" - the status of humanity, freedom, struggle, equality, love, decency and real love - "Love to God". Shoaib Mansoor has succeeded to win the hearts of millions of people in the country and around the world by giving new dimension and meaning to the poetry of revolutionary poet Bulleh Shah in the mesmerizing musical video Supreme Ishaq. The singer is newcomer on the national musical market scene and platform of PTV. But he has experience of many years of classical singing, and Kafis. His name is "Riaz Ali Qadri". He has very fine, matured and guttural voice. He is God gifted singer who always sings with best of his ability and natural talent. He is from the area of Qaboola Shareef, Pakpattan. Due to his exposure to 'Kafis' at an early age and the 'Sufi' influence in his upbringing, he has evolved into a 'Kafi' singer. With the grand success and acceptability of musical video Supreme Ishaq, Riaz Ali Qadri Qadri is all set to become a icon in the field/market of Sufi music and singing in the time to come. The impressions of new model girl Shamyl Khan are remarkable. She looks very attractive, beautiful with full of passions. She has done her job with ease, dedication, and made that musical video an immortal commodity. The in-depth voice of Riaz Qadri, Shoaib's novel ideas, supreme precision and Shamyl's sedative looks has created a unique piece of art. The song truly captures the cultural and traditional spirits of Pakistan. There are too much hatred, jealousy and sentiments of enmity among the different sects and religious groups in the country and such simplistic presentation of binding love, peace and blessings as shown in the masterpiece musical video supreme Ishaq may decrease the tension among the different sects. There is doom and gloom in the country and majority of people are very depressed and the immortal musical video 'Supreme Ishaq' may deliver the message of commitment and hope. The existing global human society with islands of wealth interspersed in a sea of poverty and unabated pursuit of global apartheid could end up in an upheaval but surely that musical video and sincere efforts made by the entire team and genuine poetry of the great sufi Bulleh Shah may put an and on all sort of discriminations and abuses around the world.

JAVED BHARA: Thanks for the information. There was an agreement almost finalized to make a bridge to Kartar Pur and I understand the Pakistan Govt. (Sharif) had agreed but the Indian side had some problems but it was being worked out. The change in Pakistan and the Kargil killed the project. The Kartar Pur Gurdwara is in worst shape but I know some things are being discussed on this issue. I want to tell you (since these things are not in the press that much) that S S Mann MP (brother-in-law of the current Punjab's Chief Minister) is determined to take a Jatha to Pakistan at the B'anniversary of Guru Nanak in Nov. The Govt. of India has banned travel to Pakistan. This is the same Person who led the candle light vigilance at the border. Large number of people on both sides of the border assembled there. S S Mann wants Punjab border like US-Canada border. At least we know that some body is dreaming about things that may seem impossible.

Prem Ji. One of our friend (Qaisar Iqbal), a famous Punjabi writer, researcher and poet has published a book on "Gurdawaraas in Pakistan", along with their colored pictures and a brief history of each of them. He visited U.S.A. and Canada about a year before. He and his book were very much appreciated in the Punjabi community.

A Project to renovate the Gurdawara of Kartar pura is in the process. A school and a library have been planned. Our two friends here are very active in this project. As a matter of fact, before the tension at border had started they were ready to take a group of 'Eye Specialists' for an 'Eye Camp' in Kartar Pura. I may also be visiting Pakistan in December for two-three weeks. Lhore waajaaN piya maar da e kei saalaaN tooN.

Bawa:Nice to see you back, I wondered on numerous occasions where you had dissappeared to.

She Jatt, interesting posts....

Prem Ji...I really appreciated your email on the topic ;-), I'm a little out of action right now but I will definetly get back to you on it. Any chance of getting hold of a copy of this documentary from you?

Also, please do not formulate any pre-conceived notions about Pakistan or any major cities. Just go there with an open mind and you will be pleasantly surprised. Yes, my emphasis is on "pleasantly." Take Care.

Channa teree yaari
Ditti sahnouN bayqarari
Khholay dil walay buhay assaN
akhhiaN di bari
Channa teree yaari

Ek teriaN udeekaaN
Dujaa jindRee da roula
Kujh samajh nai paindi
Kujh sujhda nai dhola

Gai you mat sahdi mari
channa teree yaari

Devay taqaaN wich rakhhaN
ToRaaN raataN day hanayray
Jay touN moR laiN muharaaN
Paway chananaaN we phhayray

Maray dukhh we udaari
Channa teree yaari

Lammee lagdi hayaati
Din langday nai meray
Rut patayaaN nou laaway
Rounday butayaaN day chehray

MaiN we roniaaN wachari
Channa teree yaari

In either case, I don't know which caste system you're talking about. As Sardarz and others mentioned, the caste system does not exist anymore. The only system I've seen, atleast in the Sikh community, is the Jatts vs. the Rest. Is it the Brahmins that divide us today? Here's a field exercise for you. Go to sikhnet.com and look at the sikh matrimonials. After you're done, tell the rest of us who's creating divisions. Actually, to save time, I'll tell you. It's the Jatts creating divisions. Here's a typical ad from the site "I'm a JSF/JSM and lookin' for JSM/JSF only." What about rest of the Sikhs? They ain't good enough? Non-Jatts may or may not mention (and they only mention, not requiring anything) their bradari name, but Jatts demand Jattness.

I don't know what happened 2000 years ago, but I do know what happens today. It's the Jatts going around and TRYING TO oppress everybody else - young ones do it in forms of various Jatt gangs, old ones do it in the matrimonials as I mentioned etc. etc. and etc.. Is it the Brahmins doing all this today? Yeah, may be they're casting spells from the heavens. So save that hypocrite ethnic Jatt theories for the Jatt-only crowds.

As an aside, the onyl problem is "tickets"!!! For some reason tickets to Pakistan are horrendously priced at official rates whereas to other places in S. Asia one can get good offers...I was also a little surprised that there are few international flights to Lahore, when I am sure there are a lot of overseas Punjabis going back home. So it depends on Wagah being open. Thorian jiaN sochaaN, about our crazy S. Asian set up... Bawa

I dont agree with the well established theory of Africa being origin ofHomo Sapiens.
If one agree's with Darwins theory of "Evolution"I fail to understand how can one say humans originated in Africa.
Watch "Guriellas" of Congo on Discovery channel which will remind you of a 'Negroid" face and then watch 'Arangatangs" of Indonesia which will remind you of "Oriental" face.So much for a hundred plus years old school of thought.

Dear She Jatt

Where can I find "History of the Jatts by Dr B S Dhillon of Ottawa", would Amazon.com be a good start.

Regards.

by EMANUEL SARFRAZ

It is for the first time that a documentary on Sikh Gurdawaras in Pakistan has been made. The task has been accomplished by actor and script writer of films Raja Riaz. He started working on the project in the year 2000 and completed it a week ago. Disclosing details of the project to The Nation Plus, Raja who is also the organiser of the UK based World Muslim-Sikh Federation (WMSF) said that the documentary 'Darshan Didarae' has been dubbed in English and Gurmukhi/Punjabi. "It is a 45-minute documentary on all the Gurdawaras and holy places of Sikhs in Pakistan. There is input of a lot of research work. I met Sikh scholars and Garanthis (priests). We took into account their different opinions on the various myths and stories related to the monuments. Then we consulted a lot of history books for verification of the different stories. A documentary on Gurdawaras in Pakistan had never been attempted before. The only book on the subject has also been written by a non-Sikh Pakistani author. The Sikhs themselves never took up such a project. The idea struck me during my visit to the Nankana Sahib in 1999. I have a number of Sikh friends. Some of them were my business partners in Manila and Hong Kong," he explained. Speaking about other features of the documentary, Raja said "the project has been financed by me and Fiaz Khan. The title song 'Darhan Didaraey' has been sung by Ali Raza. The lyrics have been written by Mazhar Anjum while the music has been composed by Bobby Wazir. I have directed the documentary. We got the permission for shooting from the required government quarters as well as the Sikhs management. We did not face any problem in shooting except in Kartarpur which is on Pakistani side of the Narowal border. The holy place is very near the No Man's Land. It has never been documented through the lens of a camera as permission is not granted. The place is expected to open for tourists next year. Baba Guru Nanak's marhi and tomb are situated at the place. ( Guru Nanak's body was claimed both by Sikhs and Muslims. The dispute could not be settled the whole night and according to various stories when sun rose at dawn, the body of Guru had disappeared). We wanted to capture the night scene as well. We were using search lights for the shooting. All of a sudden the shelling started from the Indian side. The Pakistani troops guided us out of there with the lights of our car switched off". Raja intends to launch the documentary in London. According to him WMSF is looking after the marketing and it is likely to aired on BBC and the local channels there. He also wants to make a film 'Visa Ghat' (Betrayal) about what happened to Sikhs after partition. He is also planning a tele film 'Sanjha Pir' on the life of Guru Nanak.

http://nynjstrides.acsevents.org/site/TR?pg=personal&fr_id=1023&px=1006582

Shukran!

Link: http://msabc.convio.net/site/TRC?pg=peditor&fr_id=1023&px=1006582

Who are these "homemakerian sandhus"? eh koi nawi nasal ijaad hui ay?

You pretend to be so open-minded, but your statement "So figure out this caste gibberish and see for yourself how jatts, gujjars, northern and afgan types have been compartmentalised to fight each other" creates divisions between the people living in South Asia. Are you trying to introduce another system? Let's call it Jattism/Jattwad, shall we? In this system, everyone is Jatt or Jatt related. Talk about having diversity, multi-culture, multi-ethnicity in your system...

So my history/anthropology-educated friend, here is a lesson you forgot to learn: your ancestors didn't come from Central Asia, they came from Africa. In other words, your great great ... great daddy was a Negro just like the rest of us. If the Brahmins had no right to divide the Jatts, as you've claimed, then by following your own logic, you have no right to divide humanity into Jatts and others(Afgans what ever else you mentioned).

Jattiye, your missive is filled with hypocricy from intro to conclusion. Especially the conclusion...hahaha...you dog the Brahmins for castes, but what is calling yourself "a homemakeria caste" called? Oh wait, I know, it's called JATTWAD!!

I would also suggest visiting the campuses of major colleges and universities. I can write down a list but I suggest that you put together what you'd be interested in to give an idea to your hosts. By the way, do you speak Punjabi or Urdu? If you do then you should not have any problems in communication with the natives. But make sure that you are not tongue-tied listening and talking to the smart natives. Best Wishes.

The other question is that I may myself have a chance to travel to Lahore for an academic meeting this winter. The organiser has been at pains to assure us that nothing against foreigners (in this case a Spanish, and a nationalised Spanish) has occured in Lahore etc. etc. For anyone living in Lahore, we wpuld dearly love to travel there, but after hearing even a lot of Pakistani people advising against it we are at a loss. What would be the advice of someone living there??

Thank you, and please keep up the good work on the forum, aseen bhawen likhiye naan, parde jaroor rehnde han.

Problem is that a thinking Musharraf is too Kooky and a recipe for disaster. He should stop thinking and just following orders as he did after 9/11 terror. Whenever he acts after thinking and planning as in cases of Kargil, overthrowing the government and planning to extend his stay in power through referendum, he ends up making poor choices.

Did any Punjabi activists won? I know Fakhr Zaman of World Punjabi Congress lost in Lahore.

Now let us start from provices and then come to the centre. MMMA as the westren call them pro-taliban group will make their governtment easily in NWFP without any confrontation and if they get partnership of Muslim League Q then it will also be easy for them to make government in Balochistan. Though it has less chances in progressive Pakistan. In Balochistan: MMMA won 12 seats whereas Muslim League Q won 9, PPP 2, nationalist Balochs could win only 4 seats, others won 12 seats. If other than MMMA one combind group establishes in Balochistan then in the National Assembly we can see this sort of partnership which will have support from Military as well as the West and I feel that will be the way adopted in the NA. Certainly, country and specially northen province and the belt along Afhanistan and Iran is voted only for Kitab (which was propaganded as Quran verses the rest (allies of USA) and they swept the whole area on the name of book anti Bush & Mush the other part. And I doubt that they (MMMA) could make any partnership in Balochistan so it is certain they will not be able to make a partnership in the Centre. So one thing is clear that for Muslim League Q there is only one door is opened ie partnership with PPP and plus others minus MMMA. In Punjab, Muslim League Q will make its government easily. In Sindh, PPP will make its government easily. MQM is cornered in Sindh and in the Centre. These are the development which I feel and understand. Let us see what happens. But one thing is clear that the Taliban's territory is slipped here in Pakistan's northern province. It will certainly different than the entire country. They try to make that part examplary and there will be tough time for the Muslim League Q government in the centre from MMMA too. It will be utmost try to expand their power day by day. So very tough years for the country are ahead. There will be more chances of polarisation within the masses and ....................it will lead to not any happy end.

Now let us start from provices and then come to the centre. MMMA as the westren call them pro-taliban group will make their governtment easily in NWFP without any confrontation and if they get partnership of Muslim League Q then it will also be easy for them to make government in Balochistan. Though it has less chances in progressive Pakistan. In Balochistan: MMMA won 12 seats whereas Muslim League Q won 9, PPP 2, nationalist Balochs could win only 4 seats, others won 12 seats. If other than MMMA one combind group establishes in Balochistan then in the National Assembly we can see this sort of partnership which will have support from Military as well as the West and I feel that will be the way adopted in the NA. Certainly, country and specially northen province and the belt along Afhanistan and Iran is voted only for Kitab (which was propaganded as Quran verses the rest (allies of USA) and they swept the whole area on the name of book anti Bush & Mush the other part. And I doubt that they (MMMA) could make any partnership in Balochistan so it is certain they will not be able to make a partnership in the Centre. So one thing is clear that for Muslim League Q there is only one door is opened ie partnership with PPP and plus others minus MMMA. In Punjab, Muslim League Q will make its government easily. In Sindh, PPP will make its government easily. MQM is cornered in Sindh and in the Centre. These are the development which I feel and understand. Let us see what happens. But one thing is clear that the Taliban's territory is slipped here in Pakistan's northern province. It will certainly different than the entire country. They try to make that part examplary and there will be tough time for the Muslim League Q government in the centre from MMMA too. It will be utmost try to expand their power day by day. So very tough years for the country are ahead. There will be more chances of polarisation within the masses and ....................it will lead to not any happy end.