Payarae Lal Ji,
I tried very hard to add to your poem "Wah ni muhabaatae" but could not get the lyrics right.Kindly share the rest of the lines,if you have completed it.
Regards.

I have recently come across a recording of perhaps the the first ever urban balladeer of love and cultural memory in Punjabi. This Delhi based young boy, by the unusual name Rabbi, in his early 20s is absolutely astounding and has sung about the anxieties of people on the margins - especially the peasants who have been forced to take recourse to suicide within an agro-economy gone horribly out of control. His Bulla Ki Janna Mein Kaun on the basic guitar chords is perhaps the finest rendition of this poem I have ever come across. The happiest news is his rendition of Shiv Kumar Batalvi's Ik Kudi Jihda Naam Mohabbat which is sung with a degree of internalisation that makes the poem real even for me - I simply do not rate Shiv Kumar as a poet of any consequence. I have just received a copy of Wadali brothers' Aa Mil Yaar and I cannot tell you how deeply disappointed I am with this album. Cheers! Sukhbir

Ek gal hor. Eh discussions vich, personal assessment hor comments (Fikre baazi) naa hi karo te achha A. I do not mind discussion on current affairs but do not resort to man-management, but focus on issue management. Eh saade region de culture di bahut vadi kamjori hai ki asi bahut jaldi man-management te uttar aane haan, bajaye ke issue manage karan de.

Hor bahut sites ne jithe Indian aur Pakistanis changi ek-duje di maa – behn kar rahe ne. Mein es site te aana kyon ke athe meri boli vich, meri tehjeeb vich mere virse bare gal-baat hori hondi hai. I feel bad about not learning Punjabi language while schooling in Delhi. Now when I am learning about vastness of my inheritance, I have so many questions and many of them may sound odd to U. But please do not discourage me by man-management. Har koi tuhade varga samajhdaar (enlightened) nahin hai. Mere jeyaN Nu V enlightened discussions da sakoon len deO.
Ajay

Dear Safir: Personally, I am fine with your rationale on not prologing the thought on Sikhs or Muslims any further. But your comment on the waste of time is very subjective. A lot of nonsense and rubbish is also shared and posted off and on, aren't they a waste of time and bandwidth. No, it's not. Simply because it is the interactor's prerogative(as long as it stays in the limits of decency)and no one is bound to read and respond. Just wanted to make a point.

A Recommendation: I suggest formulating a small team of "thinkers" who can spell out, what is meant by "culture"? You will see 100 different answers from 100 different people. Then, I would very humbly request to let "me" skim through them and I would pick the best one. As, that's a topic very important to my well being :) Otherwise, I do not see the knowledge of so many on board who added "positive contributions" being rightly utilized! Just an observation.

Lastly,
Dear Positive Contributors: Thank you for your kind vichaar since they clarifed some haziness that was out there. If I have any further questions, I will send you an email directly. I hope it would not be considered trespassing. Thanks.

Thanks for everyone's understanding.

Safir Rammah

AKHHIAAN/br>

aisay gal di maari
way mai nahi saan laowndi akhhiaan
raateen tay kayhnda sayn main bund banwa dayaan
dinn jad chahrdya tay ulat gayaan akhhiaan
palat gayaan akhhiyaan
aisay gal di maari
way mai nahi saan laowndi akhhiaan
raateen tay kayhnda sayn chudra ghadra dayaan
dinn jad chahrdya tay ulat gayaan akhhiaan
palat gayaan akhhiyaan
aisay gal di maari
way mai nahi saan laowndi akhhiaan

Regards

Ajay: I agree with your drift. You are right on the mark! I consider this forum the best venue to ask the Sikh Readership on their stance about affiliations with the people vs. attachment to the land. It was a very spontaneous series of questions that I had posted. One other point to keep in mind is that there is far more diversity in India and its mindset than in Pakistan. There are not any or many Sikhs in Pakistan who you grow up with, to learn their mindset. The best source of information is ______: People. Well put together people. Few year back a Hindu friend had invited me over for luncheon. Both of us have kept in touch via common links and were involved in South Women Leadership Initiatives. When I reached her place, I was the only invitee from that group. Now, one of her brother in laws was a senior Indian Army Official. There was a lot of family from all parts of the world seated there. There was slight tension initially on having a Pakistani there. Probably, there was not any tension but it was in mind. Anyway, I broke the ice and introduced myself and many common things came out from talking about Lahore. There was this sudden exuberance in the air that one could feel and relate to. The women spoke about how their grand parents talked about Lahore, anarkali in particular and interesting stuff. The men were a little dazed to be in the presence of a Pakistani, who is being very normal and casual about her views. And, there was some reticence in openly expressing their views when it came to the family who was visiting from India. Those who lived here, they were very open. But someone had to take the bull by its horns and initiate a conversation. Otherwise, I could have continued sitting in the kitchen and having my food amongst women. We did talk about regional politics and it was real fun. Her brother-in-law spoke about a lot of things that were unheard of. I had a very educational discussion session. I also noticed one of the couples, upon leaving bid goodbye in the form of namastae or pranam (the one they do with both hands together. I think it is the latter than the former.) Very traditional, Rajistani couple. Now one of them was in that posture of pranam for a few minutes. And, honestly speaking I was a little uncomfortable as if I did something wrong. I cannot state that feeling of confusion. Point is, if you do not sit and talk, and everything that you know of is through books or through media that is plain rubbish. You have to connect on a personal level. There is no such thing as trust unless you do not interact. I like to learn from different people about certain sensitivities otherwise it’s all in the head. For instance, as a child I have always seen Sikh Yatrees in Anarkali Bazar. They would come during a certain season and will look around, not necessarily buying things, but just remembering the old days, I guess. Now, often times, the shopkeepers and others will become very quiet in their presence. I had a hard time determining whether that silence was out of respect or out of some kind of fear. And, I like to make sure that I do not assume things based what my surroundings thought of. How do you bridge a gap? Of course, by analyzing the factors involved in the creation of that gap or the factors in the picture. You may know of some sacred beliefs and you would not delve much into them. But if you do not and you assume that all Sardar Saheb with the Pagree are religious leaders and one should not ask them any question or interact with them then that is ridiculous.

Mahinder: I agree with you that this “Ji or Jee” is quite harsh on one’s finer senses, if any left :) "Lack of holistic view" Aha-Very Nice! By the way, it seemed that in your well-composed and well-analyzed post you were portraying a movie scene than a war scene :)! Despite the fact that you made certain assumptions and filtered out certain phrases, I liked your train of thought- slightly lacking in "holistic view" :) Also, there was no apology on my end. Anyone taking "clarity" for "apology" requires "comprehension pill" that I earlier suggested to someone in desperate need. Rest with the same symptoms may consult her as well.

Abc: Beautiful! Nice. In fact, very very nice! Thank you for taking it to the next step :) The word, "war" no matter how horrific it sounded and echoed, was a symbolic term. All the more reason, more voice of reason should come out to clear the air of that unknown silence that I had noticed way back during the visit of those Yatrees.

Etes-vous fatigué Monsieur?

Voulez-vous restez Monsieur?

Che tadbire Musalmanaan

Ki man khura nami daanam

Na tarsaa, na Yahoodam man

Na gubram, na Musalmanam

Na sharkiam, na gharbium

Na barriyum, na behriyum

Na az kaane tabieeyum, na az aflaake gardanum

Na az khakum, na az aabum

Na az baadum, na az aatish

Na az arsham, na az farsham

Na az kaunum, na az kaanum

Na az Hindum, na az Chinum

Na az Bulghaaro saqseenam

Na az mulke IraqiumNa az khake Khurasaanum

Na az duniya, na az uqbaa

Na az jannat, na az dozakh

Na az aadam, na az havvaa

Na az firdauso rizvaanum

makaanam lamakaan baashad

Nishaanam binishaan baashad

Na tan baashad, na jaan baashan

Ki man az jaane jaanaanam

And finally

My nerves are raw

I am wounded

And surrounded by a tribe of sadists

Sukhbir

maiN gal day rukhh badlan lai - char misray likhh rayha waan - chaloo rall kay ais noun puray geet di shakal dayaye.

ek dujay nal nazraan milian
dil wich wass gae chah
ishq patakay dhumaan paayaan
dittay dil dhadrkah

wah ni mohabatay wah

I came across an absolutely rivetting rendition of Heer in a 1942 film produced from Lahore entitle Khazanchi. It was rendered by a singer named Rafiq Ghaznavi. I was just wondering if

a) one could possibly have access to more of his music, and

b) if he is in some way related to another great exponent of Heer, though for some peculiar reasons not as well-known, Sharif Ghaznavi

The film was produced by the Pancholi brothers and had music by the legendary Ghulam Haider. It was a major pan-Indian hit and in fact ushered in the song-and-dance era.

Sukhbir

Shahid: Before you state any rules and regulations, another pointr that APNA posts on its forum in "green" is misbehavior. You should also ban the posts of those who just come to this forum to put forth cheap shots and street language. Specially, people who write under garbs and post abusive language should be banned for good. Kindly make sure that your own qibla is durust in defining the direction of this forum. Well, if abusive language and street remarks are part of your culture than make sure you highlight that in your magna carta as well.

What i meant by saying that i would be neutral is that if a war broke out between Pakistan and India i would not become patriotic towards India and wish them to crush Pakistan by whatever means. Being neutral, i would take interest in knowing everything about the war, but would not care which government declares victory in the end, since the people of Punjab, along with Kashmir, Rajasthan, and Sindh would have suffered tremendously, and for what reason? Because Pakistani and Indian politicians cant get over their phoney sense of pride and accept progress on the other side of the border? Or that their fake pride will not let them "give in" on Kashmir?

As for your scenario. I by no means love the land more than the people and culture and if i were living in (East)Punjab than i suppose i would have to fight to survive and to protect mine and my family's future. However, again, in that scenario i can still picture myself as remaining neutral inside, and my taking up arms would not be a willing move but would be an action that had been forced upon me by politicians who do not care for me, my family or my culture, only my native land which feeds their entire country.

In your scenario i would most likely end up dying in the field because my heart would not be there since there was no honorable or justifiable cause to go to war over. And lets face it, why should i, a Punjabi, fight for Kashmir? Which is what India and Pakistan will most likely go to war over. I have never been to Kashmir, and as far as i know i dont have any Kashmiri's in my family, and it may be a very simple form of thinking on my part but as far as im concerned the above means that i have no need to allow myself to be sent to the front line in Kashmir and fight a war over an area of land that i have no links or attachment to.

I may have strange views on identity, and i have said it before, but i really dont identify myself as being 'Indian' and i cant identify myself as belonging to the same community as other South Asians. To me, there is no Indian(Well, only Hindi speaking people are Indian) or Pakistani, only Punjabi, Kashmiri, Assamese, Sindhi, Bengali, Tamil etc. I also dont look upon people by what religion they belong to. To me a Punjabi Sikh, Hindu, and Muslim are of the same kind whereas a Punjabi Hindu and Tamil Hindu or Punjabi Muslim and Mohajir Muslim are not. Im sure most of you will disagree with me on that, and thats fine, i respect everyone's right to an opinion, but to me, India and Pakistan are just another Yugoslavia, one nation forcibly drawn together and made out of many.

While i dont hate other provinces/states of India and Pakistan, i dont have any love for them either. Perhaps that is a very narrow minded view on my part, but heh, im still growing/learning everyday. Now, just to clarify what i regard as Punjab is West & East Punjab, and parts of Haryana, Himachel Pradesh, Islamabad, and Delhi.

Thanks... [Thoughts Continue...]

Treating an imagined social group as a monolith is frought with unspeakable dangers. If an evidence is required from recent history, the hysterical intolerance of the otherwe are witnessing in the sub-continent is an eye-opener. But then people see what they want to see and disregard the rest. My heartiest congratulations to whoever finds inspiration in the writings and, more importantly, in the ideas of Koestler in this day and age.

Sukhbir

aaj savere hi, meinu Gurdas Mann da ek doli geet yaad aaya hai ate ghar di yaad aa gye hai. (Gurdas Mann hor Doli geet!!!). Ji, janab 1989-90 vich Asi Udh jana ho.. Sada chiriyana da chamba... nu modify kar ke Gurdas Mann ne bahut hi sohna doli geet gaya c (title line is same). Agar kisi kol eh gana hove te kirpa karke APNA site nu contribute kar de O ya menu bhej de O. Badi meharbani.

Sukhbir

Getting back to” Translated Works”
Leave alone the Western or English works of translation. Lets talk about a example that everyone has access to our very own Shiv K Batalvi whose work has been translated by Suman Kashyap Ji (Which is a great work in itself) and which is posted on APNA home page.
The “DARD” or originality of the poets feelings that is portrayed in the parent language (Punjabi) is not thee same when translated into English, or for that matter into any other language, no matter by whom. BUT; it may come close to the effect as of the parent language IF translator tinkers and plays with words, but then it would be at the cost of changing the effect, maybe from “DARD” to “Romance” or anything but not the original emotion.
The point is translation never does justice to the original work and if you force it, it does not remain the original emotion.
So, your use of translation as an example to convince me of tinkering by future generations with the original work, left me still opposing your view

I will employ a historical example here, KALIDAS who lived like maybe 2000 years after VALMEEKKI, could very well be argued to be of greater intellect/caliber than Valmeekki, he could have “tinkered” with the Valmeekki’s work and produced a (per your definition) a better and literally rich Ramayan, but chose to write his own version, which to this day is regarded with same respect( as the original,which though can be argued is no longer available) but is different than the original work.

So, my contention is any poet/writer who adds to a Original Known work of another poet/writer to enrich the original work could not be better than the original author, if he/she is; then the way to go would be Kalidas’s way.
Finally additions/improvements to tangible things like Architecture(Applied Sciences) is not the same as tinkering with literary works.
Regards.

I guess most reactions to Ur questions were not in right spirits. I also feel no need for reading in between your lines. Ur questions were as friendly as your other mails. One has to talk all things with same set of friends. I do not have one set of friends for veg-jokes and other set for non-veg jokes.
This forum is a stage for punjabis to discuss their society. Culture and war are part of society. The way people have turned down the discussion on war is a good indicator which tells that people on Indian side do not want war (I am not saying others want). Also U have got your answers and that is the view.

War (also riots/ militancy) is the worst part of a society and civilisation. It is a phenomenon with its own rules, procedures and conduct. Communities, once at war, behave as per those. All humanitarian considerations are packed off then. Civilised world can not think of those.

U R a wonderful person who expressed a good faith in this forum by raising your questions and could maintain such a cool after getting diagonally opposite resposnes. That's the contribution of culture and literature in ones personality. Looking forward to your interactions.

May be now I am thinking of putting your questions in another way.
I will be back -- Ajay

Anyone can give some links of some good online stores where I can buy some classical Punjabi Music...much like what's already online. (No Nusrat please...I already have like almost a 100 albums)...

No a days only things I get to read is weekly newspapers which are good source of news of the whole week compact sized...most of them also include articles, stories and other stuff already published in either daily newspapers in Punjab and sometimes even from monthly magazines. but mostly you miss the experience of reading the whole 40/50 page magazine in 2 or 3 hour sitting. I tried to subscribe few and used to get PreetlaRhi and Aarsi for a while but I don't get anymore. If you want to subscribe them it costs on average about $20 to $50 annually for each and delivery is not very bharosaymand either. I am trying to come up with a list of magazines if I have to buy/subscribe or have someone in Punjab buy and ship it for me. I can remember only a few names and need your help as many old ones might have gone down and new ones sprung up. Amrita' Nagmani has closed few months ago. Please add to the list below if you have seen/read any lately:

- Aarsi
- PreetlaRhi
- Akkas
- SirnaawaN
- Panj Darya
- Sirjana
- Tasveer
- Music Times in Punjabi (have not seen one yet)
- Sarokaar

Any others?

First of all if there is a Indo-Pak war, Indian or Pakistani forces will not cross border at Wagah, that would be a suicide, both sides are well defended and well entrenched all along Punjab border. The incursions would come from Jammu/Kashmir, Rajasthan and or Gujarat on Indian side of border (Well its good it saves the Punjabi public from getting trounced).
”Would the Sikhs all over the world protest”
NO why should they, the war is between the State of India and Pakistan not a war of Indian state against Sikhs.

”Would the Sikhs originally from West Pakistan stand up against the encroachment and violation”

NO, why should they, the Sikh population that were adults at the time of partition and had fond memories of the homeland are gone or mostly elderly now, the ones who were kids or the ones who were born in India have no picture of the older homeland. The place where they were raised or where they were born is their homeland.
One another interesting fact here is that the Hindu, Sikh population that migrated to East Punjab after partition was not given the same treatment by local people like it was done to Muslim migrants from UP to Pakistan.
Most of the migrant families from W.P were socially accepted by the local people of E.P and were not labeled as “MOHAJIRS”. So I would say the bond with the older homeland is not like “W.P was our home and this (E.P) is a foreign land”, on the contrary it is like this “E.P is our home, but it will be great to see the united Punjab again”.

”Would the Sikh Soldiers be in that regiment which is to cross Wahga? And, would it be a willing move’
You have just returned from Pakistan, you must have seen the financial position of a common man, If not lower common Sikh Punjabi on of E.P would be at the same or higher level, ie, struggling to make a decent living. The majority of Sikh soldiers (not officer rank) are in the army not due to a choice of career but due to “Roti da sawaal ae”. In this scenario crossing the border or not is not a individual choice, it’s the duty.
Now it would be different if the attack was against a religious place of Sikhs like Nankana Sahib, now it would become a individual decision, cuz it affects a individuals free choice of practicing/protecting their religion, which runs strong in all people of subcontinent.

As for that elderly gentleman’s observation regarding morale of Indian forces VS Pakistani forces, I think he is grossly mistaken. Do not forget armies of both the countries trace their inheritance to British army; same type of training and mindset, hatred for other religion is present in soldiers of both the armies if that’s a factor. The British way of army training was discipline or complete subjugation of an individual soldiers decision-making ability, and we still do that while we train our soldiers on both sides, so question of morale is not an issue here.
Regards.

This takes back to a point I had brought up last year and that revolved around the theme and crux of what is taught in our literature and poetry. Is diplomacy also a concept that is ever taught in regional poetry? Can anyone learned enough shed some light on that? If diplomacy was never mentioned or taught in our folk poetry and literature, then it is a foriegn concept that was forced upon the natives. And, it seems that any concepts that were forced upon the natives were never fully absorbed by them. So, what do we come to, at the end of the day? Our basic teachings, simple down to earth teachings. I go back to the same point that we could not adopt them as well. On emotional level, perhaps ther was acceptance, but on practical level it did not go anywhere. Or did it?

and for that I am quoting a chapter from “Born to Win” by Promod Batra which has a title “FROM BFP TO KFP” which says:

On how to develop a positive attitude through KFP (key farak paindaa … what difference does it make), let me narrate a story which will in all probability, make an impact on you. Coca Cola and Pepsi were engaged in Cola wars after the launch of Diet Coke in the USA. Pepsi came out with the concept of the “Young Generation” and went in a record breaking $ 5 million contract with Michael Jackson. But for KFP, this contract would have been in courts causing stress to Pepsi management and its bottlers. It happened like this. It was stated in the agreement that Jackson’s face will be shown 5 1/2 times. When Jackson saw the film rushes, he put his foot down and wanted it not more than 4 1/2 times. Now, the Pepsi management knew for sure that they have a watertight contract and more or less decided to go to court to teach a lesson to the “brat”. As luck would have it, its very young president asked the senior marketing manager for his opinion. His response was instantaneous: “What difference do 5 1/2 or 4 1/2 circles make? If ever anyone came to know of our fight over this one circle, they would think that we were a bunch of idiots!”

Not does BFP (Bohat farak paindaa …..it makes a lot of difference) create a lot of tension to its “victim”, it also increases blood pressure. So let go of BFP and embrace KFP. After all, no one can hurt you without your permission.

This takes back to a point I had brought up last year and that revolved around the theme and crux of what is taught in our literature and poetry. Is diplomacy also a concept that is ever taught in regional poetry? Can anyone learned enough shed some light on that? If diplomacy was never mentioned or taught in our folk poetry and literature, then it is a foriegn concept that was forced upon the natives. And, it seems that any concepts that were forced upon the natives were never fully absorbed by them. So, what do we come to, at the end of the day? Our basic teachings, simple down to earth teachings. I go back to the same point that we could not adopt them as well. On emotional level, perhaps ther was acceptance, but on practical level it did not go anywhere. Or did it?

samajh nai aowndi assi kadoun waday howaan gay - mintaan wich aay forum bachayaan wangoon react karan lag paynda aay - lagda aay assi langota bann tay shayed har waylay tayyar-o-tayyar ee honay aan - jairday saanoun dunger kayhnday nai koe ghalat nai kayhnday - mohazab lokaan wangoon waratna sahnoun khabray aaya ee nai

patanae kyoun mera dil aay sab padr kay pairda kyoun ho gaya aay - ji karda aay FORUM nouN ee aakhhri khat pa kay munh chhupa lawaan

Rabb sabb da chunga karay

Zahra Ji, i fail to see what you are looking for with your questions. To me the questions come across as you suggesting that Sikh's have/should have no loyalty to India, i may be wrong, but if that is the case than i guess it really depends on the individual where their loyalty lies, its not possible to group the religious community as a whole regarding non-religious beliefs/view points.

Let me just say, my family had homes in West Punjab before August 14th, 1947, my Grandfather lived in Lahore. It was an encroachment and violation when hordes of immigrants from Uttar Pradesh and Bihar turned up in Punjab and claimed the ancestral homes of the non-muslim Punjabi's who lived there just because they happened to be Sikh or Hindu and these "mohajirs" Muslim.

Having a border in the first places with steel mesh fencing dividing East and West Punjab separating a people on religious lines is also a violation.

I dont want to see India and Pakistan go to war, but if it does occur i will remain neutral since my concern/loyalty is for Punjabiat only and i care nothing for the governments of India or Pakistan.

Probably not the answers you were looking for...

Long Live Punjab!

As far as some of you who stooped low in their responses, I want to thank you as well for you gave another side of the picture that is still vague. Thanks for that as well!

mainu pata nahin ke oh 3 sawaal puchan de piche tohadi ki mansha rahi hai. eh te Rabb sacha hi jaan sakda hai.

Pehley sawaal de jawaab vich ke aapne ghar nu Aag lage gi te Roulaa te paaona hi paina hai.

Dooje sawaal de jawab vich ke Sirf Sikhaan to hi khilafvardi di Tavaquo kyon? Encroachment te violation di khilaafat lai te har ik da virodh karna banda hai.

Teesri Gall ke sikh ragiment di Wahga paar karan di te tohadi Jaankaari lai das deiye ke regiment di marji nahi Mulkaan di siyaasat vich siyaasatdaanan di marji chaldi hai. Te jithe tak tusi puchh rahe ho ke is this invasion is going to be a willing move. Eh te dilaan de mamle han eh te ohna nu hi pucho te jiyada theek hai.

Pata nahi ke lokaan nu v ki ho jaanda hai ke changiyaan-2 gallaan karde karde pher dil-o-dimaag kidhar nu tur painda hai. Shaayed dil utey Shaitaan da parchaava pai geya hai.

O Bibi ji Koi Vassan di Gall Karo.

RABB RAKHA

Have you ever read any translated work? I am sure you did, may be englsih translation of Marquez or Ocho or Mahfouz or Tolstoy or Dostoyevsky or anybody. What is the level of authenticity in translating the beauty of one language into another and how is it measured? It can't be mesured is the answer, except a matter of trust. I suppose our orthodoxy and reverence should oppose any translation of Bahu or Bulley Shah or Ghulam Farid, lest authenticity might be compromized.

What we know about Jesus comes from translation of Aramic into Greek into Latin and into English. I guess authenticity was always the main concern of all translators throughout 2000 years. For Muslims, the ababeel is still a mystery bird but, of course, nobody denies authenticity in translating surat 'feel' in Urdu. For antiquity, authenticity is nothing more than a state of mind, a belief. As we move closer to modern times, we have more tools and data avaulable to authenticate. It means we have multiple standards for authenticizing, from belief on one end to serious efforts with scientific proofs with translated materials in between. Is god authentic?

I gave you one example of Baghadur Shah Zafar whose authentic poetry makes him a third rate Urdu poets whereas adultration is second or first rate poetry. A Pakistani poet Qateel Shifai, used to sell his poems to reputed but inferior poets who were writing songs in the movies. Many of the famous songs were written by this first class or second class poet for third rate lyrics writers in the movie industry. There are many factors involved for one talented poet or artist to create his own niche. Doli chaRdiaN mariaN Heer cheekaN is no less beautiful than rest of Heer Waris Shah though the author is anonymous. Renovation of many historical buildings turn them more beautiful than the original. What's the big deal about it? What is wrong with taking heterodoxical position against orthodoxy vis-a-vis Sufism extended unilaterally into Sufis' poetry?

If there is a war between India and Pakistan and the Indian forces cross Wahga Border.

a) Would the Sikhs all over the world protest?
b) Would the Sikhs originally from West Pakistan stand up against the encroachment and violation?
c) Would the Sikh Soldiers be in that regiment which is to cross Wahga? And, would it be a willing move?

I would rather not assume since I do not like making any assumptions. If I do not get authentic perspectives, and I also do not assume anything then that will leave me ignorant. And, I simply cannot stand ignorance. Can I hear from all or some on my above mentioned scenario? Please just state your own perspective. Thanks.

What I objected to was stress upon authenticity all the way down to a singer. Singer is as much a creative artist as a poet. The authenticity for the purpose of keeping the record straight is a genuine issue but textual purity for singers is not a major issue. Such things go unnoticed for most poets but certain classical poets and poetry is treated with reverence for variety of reasons, religion/ spirituality being top of the lsit. In this kind of situation, it almost becomes a duty to guard its authenticity.

The debate arises when people like me show no reverence because they do not regard spirituality a reason for reverence and express their opinion. For me, this is just another opinion without disrespect for anybody. The way I see this is hyping position in one discipline because of the expertise in another discipline. Whatever training a Sufi had in spirituality is no huarantee to achieve same level in poetry and vice versa. High regard for a great poet is translated into great thinker and and that hyped up position of a thinker comes back to hype poetry and an ascending loop is created where every aspect of that individual life is hyped. Same is true for Sufi spirituality and poetry. Both must be treated separate disciplines and scholarship in one should not be used to hype other. I have seen living poet like Shamsher Sandhu sitting in front of the singer, Surjit Bhindhrakhia, does not object to Surjit playing around with Sandhu poetry. More folk an artist becomes, more liberty he/ she enjoys to using poetry for creating music and song.

It is the obligation of academia, scholars and research workers to worry about authenticating textual creation of an artist.

Another point is about searching for meaning in one's poetry. The original author himself might not have so deeply as the meanings are often deduced from a hyped up revered position. Most Urdu poets writing romantic poetry were not always practicing what they were writing. Not everybody was eloping, shedding tears for beloved, measuring their neck, lips and eyes or drinking all the time. They are just themes to create literature around them. When it comes to Sufi poetry, they are immediately considered practioners of oneness with god because that is the theme of their poetry. Again, for a non-conformist like me, practicing oneness with god means nothing. Therefore, when I will read their poetry, I will read it for Panjabi words stringed beautifully. When I'll listen to their poetry by singers, I 'll do it for listening pleasure of Panjabi composition and not straightening up my sinful behavior.

Reverence works strangely depending where you are. In places around shrine, small time singers can be roughed up for toying with creativity of their skills. People can be killed for toying with literature considered religious. The combination of textual violence and reverence could create deadly mix.

It is a different thing when a singer takes a few lines from one poet and a few from another or adds folk lines to Sufi lines. A singer has that license I think. But basically he/she should show their chamatkaar in innovation or evolution of their technique and style. When Junoon sings Iqbal with a modern beat and style, thats innovation.

Set Sufi poetry aside and I agree that a singer is different from a preacher and has no obligation to sing every line of a poem. There are some singers who change/substitute words in a Batalvi poem. How does one justify that? Perhaps this is a copyright issue.

langday din wee
guzran raataaN
bhul na jaawan
beetiaaN baataaN
likhh lay aay pal
wich kitaabaaN
aay hi
yaad karan da hayla
dunniya
chaar dinaaN da mayla

Please check the mail which I am sending you the list of the books in your personal mail. There are 38 books which Bhaee Jamil Paul Jee could not mention. Regards.

Origins of Urdu masnavi

By Intizar Husain

Insha Allah Khan Insha, sitting in Lukhnow, found himself under the spell of Qissa Heer Ranjha, which compelled him to pay his compliments to this tale of love in these words: Sunaya Heer ka qissa jo raat Insha ne, to ahl-i-dard ko Punjabioon ne loot liya. This couplet did attract the attention of the readers of classical poetry. But hardly any critic or reader showed the curiosity to know how this tale travelled from Punjab to the Lukhnow of Insha and Mushafi. Was it by some happy chance that Insha stumbled on to this tale of love, or had Heer and Ranjha succeeded in finding a place among the legendary lovers celebrated by Urdu poetry? It goes to the credit of Dr Gopi Chand Narang that he dug out many masnavis written on the love affairs of Heer Ranjha and Sassi Punhoon. He, in fact, had planned to study Urdu masnavis from the point of view of their roots in the culture of the land. This led him to investigate as to how far they had borrowed from the stock of old tales of Indian origin. And he found out this borrowing to the extent that he titled his thesis, Hindustani qisson se makhooz Urdu masnavian (Urdu masnavis originating from Indian tales). This thesis was first published in 1959. The new edition has recently been published by the National Council for the Promotion of Urdu in Delhi. Narang's research gives quite a new perspective to the tradition of Urdu poetry. Urdu, because of its links with Persian, has been much under attack in India. The Hindiwallahs led the attack by arguing that the whole poetic tradition of Urdu had developed under the influence of Persian poetry, that it had all that was foreign to the land. The tradition of Urdu ghazal lent strength to this argument. And the Urduwallas upheld the ghazal as if it comprised the whole poetic tradition of their language. Other poetic forms were badly ignored. So the different facts of the Urdu poetic tradition remained unattended. The worst sufferer was the masnavi. Our classical poetry had a rich masnavi tradition. But, unfortunately, it was overshadowed by the ghazal. Most of the masnavis remained unpublished and hence receded into oblivion. It was left for the researchers to dig them out from the old archives where they were lying buried in the form of manuscripts. This is what Dr Narang has done. He delved deep into old archives, dug out a number of manuscripts of masnavis, sorted them out and traced their origin. As is evident from the researches of Dr Narang, the cultural climate Urdu masnavis carry with them is very different from that of Urdu ghazal. They appear rooted very much in the soil of the subcontinent. The Persian elements are, of course, there. But local colours and elements are dominant. Most of the masnavis owe their origin to some South-Asian tale. In case the tale has come from the Persian or Arabic stock, it undergoes in the hand of the poet a process of transformation under the influence of the cultural climate of the land. Narang has classified these masnavis in respect of the origins of tales told therein. These tales, according to this classification, are of four varieties, Puranic, old folk, Indo-Iranian and semi-historical. The Puranic tales include a few from the Mahabharata, two of which have been great favourites with masnavi writers. The one is the tale of Nal and Damyanti, and the other is that of Shakuntala. The list of old folk tales, that have inspired most of our masnavi writers, is long, embracing a rich variety of stories. They have been further subdivided between those inspiring masnavi writers in the South and those in the North of India. The latter list includes a number of masnavis written on the series known as Sanghasan Battisi. The long list of the tales classified as semi-historical but more favourite with masnavi writers are the tales of Heer Ranjha, Sassi Punhoon, Sohni Mahiwal and Padmavat. With reference to the tale of Heer Ranjha, Dr Narang has traced six masnavis. Among them is one written by Mool Chand Munshi, who was a disciple of Shah Naseer Dehlvi. He had written it at the behest of Mumtaz Mahal, the consort of King Akbar Shah, the Second. But Narang has given preference to the one written by Karam Ilahi Bhopali, that appears to be based on Warris Shah's version. In addition, we have a verse-play written by Ronaq Benarsi written in 1880. Along with them, we have seven prose versions, the oldest being written in 1848. The tale of Sassi Punhoon can claim at least 10 masnavis in Urdu. The best of all, according to Narang, is Asrar-i-Muhabbat written by Nawab Muhabbat Khan, who was a disciple of Jurat and was the son of Hafiz Rahmat Khan, the famous Rohilla ruler of Bareilly. The tale of Shah Luddha, a dervish from the Punjab, inspired Qayam Chandpuri to write a masnavi. The other masnavi based on this tale was written by Rasikh Azimabadi. The two famous masnavis written by Mir Hasan and Daya Shankar Naseem have been placed by Narang in the category of Indo-Iranian tales. Narang, in his analytical study of the two, points out elements that are Iranian in origin and elements that are essentially Indian. The fusion of the two through poetic imagination results into a kind of synthesis of two cultural traditions.

[Eventually, I believe that the singers will start realizing that what they are singing is not authentic material and will start adopting the correct textual versions.]

I respectfuly disagree with this comments and many others said during the discussion about corruption of Sufi's poetry. First of all corruption is not the right word to explain tinkering, innovation, marketing technique and compromizes. It happens all the time in nature known as evolution. Such things are necessities.

Second thing missing from this discussion is unilaterally terming innovation in singing and lyrics creation as adultration and therefore of inferior quality. The add-ons and experimenting works both ways, good and bad. The person responsible might be of higher calibre than the original author adding value and beauty to the original work. For example, most of the highly popular ghazals of Bahadur Shah Zafar are adulatrations but of higher quality than Bahadur Shah Zafar's authentic poetry.

The work of a poet is final product as well as a scaffolding. Not everybody adultrating is 'tangaN maroRing'.

It should be least incumbent upon singers to be the cradle of authenticity of long dead poets. Singer profession is totally different than preaching gospel in original form. They prefer to sing in a way that makes it more lyrical and rythmic. They are in the business of creating not following; their job is making music and not spreading Sufism.

While authenticity is important for keeping the record straight - knowing for sure the actual creation of an artist or a poet; we do not need to rip apart what is added on to a building, ideology, philosophy, literature or anything. Living things keep evolving whereas dead ones don't.

The respect for the esteemed poets/ Sufis of past should not lead to defaming and degrading all innovators, some of them might be smarter and better skilled than the orignal artists. By the way, steel is a corruption of Iron, bronze a corruption of copper and so on.

In music industry heirarchy, song writer is much below on the ladder of influence and income. An outsider playing the role of a pundit or mullah on behalf of a dead poet with a singer is laughable, the least.

Many of the poems attributed to Sufis might be the work of their disciples in the first place because Sufis were not particularly careful in keeping the record in writing of all their creations. It was not needed either becasue less than one percent people knew how to read or write, well into 17th century. Human hisory is a history of oral traditions and therefore difficult to authenticate to the original source. The scribes always made 'corrections' and add/ delete whatever they felt right.

Sadly, we feel good by downgrading any innovation, innovator, artist, writer, poet etc if his/ her input threatens to become better than the classical stuff in any field.

Dear Sukhbir Garewal Ji: That is not an easy task and was simply not possible during the couple of days I had with Niazi Brothers. What is written on their notebooks and what they have practiced and composed for many years can't be changed so easily. Our folk singers have all done the same in public performances. It is only when they go for commercial recordings that the producers can make them sing it right.

Dear Zahra: Thanks for your comments on the column on Niazi Brothers' concert, even if never on the Concert itself - Niaizi's may say: Zikr mera mujh se behtar hey ke us mafil main hey

.

I was in Lahore for a short trip and also visited Masood Khaddar Posh trust. Generally, they have collection of all the books published in Punjabi every year. So the concerned person told me that Jamil Paul took the list of fifty books published in Punjabi during 2002. I hope he has sent you the list if not just let me know pl. I also brought the list with me. This list is not final. There must be more books published in Punjabi during last year. Here is email address of Khaddarposh trust. khaddarposh@hotmail.com

I agree with you that with industrialization there is and will be more pollution. In winters, out of sheer jest we would call it "smog."

I guess the next major project should be to get some fresh oxygen in our part of the world, since our neighbor state across Wahga never bothered to be kind enough to their bordering city and ended up weaving webs of mines. No offense meant to anyone, but those who were comparing Lahore to any other part of Eastern Punjab better not say anything. Itnaa Hee Inhaen Khayal Thaa then where were they when the bordering villages were being evacuated for war and mines were being laid as if freshly cooked food was being served on a huge dining table? On the one end, there are all the tall claims of Lahore this and Lahore that but when it came to hitting each other, they picked the most "innocent city" that thrived on its sweetness and history and tall trees and buddha ravi. How unfair and cruel! I guess this must be some joke of nature.

Industrialization naal pollution aaya aay aur pollution naal bimari - elaj saaday kol hai nai maraz assi kadi jaanay aan - shah jehan day dor wich agrayz aaye sann elaj day bahany phair chamadr kay bayh gae - laikin assi aaj tak ayna galaan tou sabak nai litaa - khair koe nai Sab achha ee aay aur sabb achha ee howay ga

Rabb Raakha Rabb Waali

Paar chanhaaN jinaaN janaaN
...Rubba ohnaaN di laaj rakh leiN
Yaar nooN haal sonanaaN
...Rubba ohnaaN di laaj rakh leiN

ChhalaaN koloN jehRiaaN dar'diaaN
Oh dubb jaavan, mool neiN tar'diaaN
Piyar jinHaaN nein kamanaaN
...Rubba ohnaaN di laaj rakh leiN

JehRiaaN bhaar neuN da chaavan
KachyaaN ghaRyaaN te Thhil jaavan
ghaRyaaN bhaaviN khur janaaN
...Rubba ohnaaN di laaj rakh leiN

Piyaar jinhaaN de looN looN rachya
Aap ohnaaN vich vas'neiN sachya
Piyaar nooN kih azmanaaN
...Rubba ohnaan di laaj rakh leiN

Paar chanhaaN jinaaN janaaN
Rubba ohnaaN di laaj rakh leiN

Dr. Ejaz: The best part of the article was the interesting introduction. There were a few other spots as well where you have kept the reader wondering phir kya hooaa, but merging the the current state of affairs with the good will ambassadors' performance was indeed very well put. Thanks for a pleasant read. Regards

The real goodwill ambassadors [Niazi Brothers)

Dr Manzur Ejaz

After a slightly delayed jumpstart, Pakistan's ambassador, Mr Ashraf Jahangir Qazi, has been on a whirlwind tour to console and mobilise Pakistani Americans against discriminating INS registration law. Pakistani immigrant community is trying its best to change its image in the US through various means. Certainly, pair of musicians, Niazi brothers, Javed and Babar, were the best envoys to convince the Americans that Pakistan is much more than just a jihad-producing factory. By their excellent performance they showed to the international audiences that Pakistan, and their native Punjab, is still the centre of great art, literature, culture and civilisation. Therefore, instead of spending millions on useless public relation firms, Pakistan needs to send more artistes like Niazi brothers.

The most prestigious US cultural institution, the Smithsonian, in its Freer Gallery, hosted Niazi brothers' music concert. The demand for the concert was so high that hundreds of music lovers could not get in because the show was fully pre-reserved a week earlier -- all tickets to the show were taken within a few days of announcement. As expected, bulk of the audience was Americans and Indians (East Punjabis in particular) while Pakistanis were few in number which was not very encouraging to say the least.

Niazi brothers' concert was organised by the Academy of the Punjab in North America (APNA). In itself, APNA is a unique non-religious, non-political organisation of Punjabis of all religious persuasions. Its membership is evenly divided between immigrants from both sides of Punjab and Punjabi Diasporas. It is extremely significant that, unlike many Indo-Pak cultural organisations, this cultural association has managed to survive for over a decade with no significant internal friction. More importantly, the organisation is credited with a substantial work in transliteration of Gurmukhi-Shahmukhi (Punjabi written in slightly modified Persian script) books and making them available in both parts of the Punjab. APNA's last major project was publishing of Kalam Guru Nanak from Lahore. The organisation is in the process of transliterating Prof Sharif Kunjahi's excellent Punjabi translation of the Qur'aan and making it available to Gurmukhi readers. Niazi brothers were the most befitting artists APNA should have promoted in Washington.

Niazi Brothers presented a wide variety of Sufi and folk songs from Punjab. In the first half they sang great classical poetry of Sultan Bahu, Bulleh Shah, Shah Hussain, Mian Muhammad Bakhsh and Khawaja Ghulam Farid with such a passion and devotion that kept the audience spellbound. Their own composition of Guru Gobind Singh's famous verse 'O sada hal murida da mittar piaray noon kahna' brought tears to every eye whether the text was understood or not. In the second half, they dwelled on great qissa (legends) tradition and famous folk songs. They also presented two poems of legendary poet Shiv Kumar Batalvi.

Niazi brothers' performance was so enchanting that even the Washington Post's music critic, Mark Jenkins, had to take a note. In his detailed column, Mr Jenkins generously praised the singers in saying that "Javaid and Babar Niazi sang in rich, sweet tones but without the intricate interplay of classical Indian music..." He also admired the accompanying instrumental musicians, tabla player Haroon Alam and banjo player Mohammed Bashir.

Javaid and Babar Niazi are carrying the great tradition of their father, legendary folk singer Tufail Niazi. Javaid not only resembles his father in appearance but also tries to capture intricacies of music Tufail Niazi was known for. Babar compliments his brother beautifully and creates a pleasant impression with his own composition of folk songs. Both brothers make a formidable team of rising stars on the music horizon. They, like their father, can sing semi-classical compositions as well as folk tunes. Probably, they add extra dimensions to apparently one-layered folk songs through their unique style: Their singing of simple folk songs in classical embedded compositions gives deeper meanings to even simple texts.

Niazi brothers are a class apart from many modern folk singers for whom the loud and fast rhythms are primary and the verses are secondary. Furthermore, unlike many new singers Niazi brothers are well trained in music and have a deeper comprehension of Punjabi poetry. They have the honour of performing in Bombay, Delhi and Chandi Garh in India besides US, Canada, UK, Germany, Middle East, China, Singapore, Malaysia and Australia. Both brothers were awarded gold medals in Spring Festival of Pyongyang in North Korea. They also represented Pakistan in a Sufi festival in Oslo, Norway.

However, despite their long list of achievements, they still lack the exposure Tufail Niazi had during his career as a leading exponent of naqals (form of village theatre), and singing in front of large crowds in rural and urban festivals all around Punjab. Tufail Niazi had a unique edge over other legendary folk singers due to his mastery over the compositions nested in classical tradition. Often he instilled new and different meanings into common verses. No wonder, Tufail Niazi had the honour of being the first person to appear on PTV on its inauguration day.
.....

The new airport's introduction... http://www.lahoreairport.com.pk/home.htm

I would also mention that very close to the Red Light District there exists a food street. This was the idea of one of the very progressive civil servants who later on moved ahead with an opportunity in the UN. The concept was introduced since the said gentleman happened to work in Rome, Italy for a while and came across the functional food streets/villages there. My brother, being in civil services as well, has worked with him, and there has been tremendous work that has been done in the past few years in upgrading as well as putting together a better infrastructure in Lahore. Interestingly, I still have not been able to frequent the famous food street. I guess that part of the world being in the outskirts of Lahore is not very inviting for the ones living in the main city and other extensions.

One thing that really stood out for me was that Lahore is not that big. I mean probably because most of the family lived very close to each other and on top of that it was not like you will drive for 40-50 miles to go from one place to another. By that time, you will be in another city eating tikkae kabab on the roadside famous Allah Rakha Tikka shop at your paternal ancestral city, Gujranwala. Here in nort NJ, I would drive up to 1.5 hours one way to reach one of Merrill Lynch's facility at the border of NJ/PA. Yes, there were not that many distances at all. Even driving on the GT Road for a few hours, I could not believe how quickly different stations passed by. It was a like a movie'e film going on. It was pretty dark night and after a few hours my patience and vision really went nuts and I stopped the car after giving the indicator. I guess at night time, no one stops their car there on a long journey. My father asked me, "What happened?" I very sweetly responded, "That's it. All my shoaq of driving on the GT Road has reached its destination. Let's exchange seats now." I have driven all over the US on very long journeys, day and night. And, I like night driving and all my aunts and uncles find me a risky element in that regard. This was the first time that I had real hard time driving at night. I guess it was being under the weather, but mainly it was due to lack of well lit roads. It's the same thing when you drive from the US to Canada from North-East, Syracuse side. It's a shock that you get upon entering Canadian Side. The roads are pathetic and the country gives you a very weird look. In Pakistan's case, the GT road was in pretty good shape. I saved our car from driving over a dead cat and the inmates immediately cheekho-fied...kyaa hoooa. Well, when you are in speed and you steer to save an already dead animal then there must have been something that took place :) Continued...

The way you depicted the capital of West Punjab(Lahore) of these days, reminded of the present capital of East Punjab (Chandigarh). Which has a unofficial name of “City Beautiful”.You could compare it to any modern city in the world. Just like it has American fast food franchises, so does it have “Chachae Da Dhaba” in Sector 35 and famous "ParontHae" of Rehri market of sector 11 near Punjab Engineering College.It is the seat of well renowned Punjab University and many colleges.
I have not seen the same type of “Valentine’s Day” celebration in San Francisco as it is in Chandigarh. There is no better mall anywhere that compares to the mall in Sector 17.There is no better lake anywhere than Sukhna Lake, no better Golf club than Chandigarh golf club, no better pub than Ghazal/Khyber. The list is endless

Your another observation also reminded me of famous Dhaba’s on the GT road from Amritsar to Delhi. Lucky Dhaba outside Jalandhur,Zamindara Dhaba outside Ludhiana which used to be stops for truckers,but nowadays their parking lots are full of family cars.
The Punjab that I have known and lived in, has a few similarities to the one you have lived in and come know.
Regards.

pal ujRaaN pal wassaaN
jindRee di ki dassaaN
souch kadi maiN rowaaN
souch kadi maiN hassaaN
.......................JindRee di ki dassaaN
kujh lungi wich zahirdari
kujh katti maiN aap khuwari
hosh nai aan lawaita ditta
aqqal nai chahRiaN kassaaN
..........................JindRee di ki dassaaN
na koe mayhram na koe baili
na koe jindRee wich payhaili
na hunn koe dard pay wadd-da
na kujh kayhndiaaN lassaaN
..........................JindRee di ki dassaaN

a) Sorry for a few typos in my past lengthy one sitting write-up. I do not want to go back and correct things so if it was hurting for the eyes and senses, my apologies.

b)I did not mean to offensive by bringing up Ludhiana in particular. My point was that Punjab is a very big state and regions cannot be compared to each other. There are certain regions with specific mood and environment.

c)My observations were the observations of an observer and a person whose eyes and mind was capturing every detail to put them in black and white. Probably using the word, "professional woman" did not do justice to my flow of thought.

No offense meant, but I have seen this tendency amongst many to compare Lahore with Delhi and Karachi with Bombay. Years ago the culture may have been similar to some extent, but I can tell that Lahore in the past 10 years has been modernized and upgraded tremendously. While in NWFP the CM is going nuts and banning movies and videos right and left, women in Lahore still enjoy their freedom of wearing whatever they want to. I am giving this as an example. I do not agree with many things that stand for something on the face value and are something else deep down inside. But I still want to highlight my observation on the freedom of choice. Yes, education is part and parcel of that!

During my stay Shalimar Gardens was given a bath in some holy stuff probably because I could not believe what I saw on TV. The red carpets and decorations in honor of the Iranian President were amazingly beautiful. I wished to attend that myself but had to head out to Islamabad for the valima of my sibling. After all the weddings, I would not pharko-fy near one for a very long time. In fact, if I ever decide to tread that path then it will be a civil marriage than this unending series of traditional rasmaen. It can drive a sane person completely insane. Yes, here you can say that I am being critical. I was an attendee therefore made a conscious effort to move with the flow. And I tell you it was very hard!Life should be simple and sweet than being made so "rasm" oriented.

Some updates on Lahore: I did not find any tooti hooyee sarak in Lahore. No garbage thrown on the streets. But then I was living in a residential area which thrives on its very well kept surroundings. The restaurant business was in full bloom. The khokhae walae hazraat had been doing equally well as the KFC, Pizza Huts and McDonalds were. I detest to even step in any of the above on my visit to Pakistan. During one trip, we drove via GT Road just to stop at a road side restaurant that was famous for its local dishes. I gave up my by air ticket just to stop by at Mian Jee's place. Years ago, I had visited this place but at that time, it was a two room truck drivers' roadside style restaurant. I could not believe it that Mian Jee did so damn well and had a very spacious and well decorated place in the middle of nowhere near Gujrat. And the green tea was excellent aside from the Mixed Vegetables I ate. My brother insisted that I try their special special fried daal in desi ghee. But I could not take the flavor of desi ghee and savored the other dish.

Going back to the airport scenario: I must mention that everyone at the airport followed a queue. By nature, our nation is not used to it. But with more education, living in systematic environments and above all acquiring patience, people are becoming more aware of politeness vs. impoliteness. The row I was waiting in had two airlines' passengers. The guy next to me commented on the delay and I agreed with his observation. We started sharing our views. I had hardly talked to him one or two sentences that he left his place for me. I refused to take that, but he insisted. I asked him if his flight was leaving after mine, but turned out that his was exactly at the same time as was mine. So, I refused and stood there till my turn came. One has to assess people on personal basis.

Continued...

Niazi Brothers

Last summer's Smithsonian Folklife Festival presented dozens of musical virtuosos from the Near and Far East, but under less than ideal circumstances for careful listening. Saturday night at the Freer Gallery, however, one of the festival's acts was able to perform at length in a less distracting venue. Accompanying themselves on harmoniums, Pakistan's Niazi Brothers sang Sufi poems and Punjabi folk standards for more than three hours.

The melodies in the first part of the program were derived from classical ragas, although the music's structures and rhythms were less complex. Javaid and Babar Niazi sang in rich, sweet tones but without the intricate interplay of classical Indian music or the call-and-response vocals of larger groups that perform qawwali, Sufi songs of devotion. One of the lyrics was by Guru Gobind Singh, a 17th-century Sikh saint; during that song, many turbaned men came forward to place monetary offerings on the stage.

After the intermission, the Niazis sang folk material, which was generally livelier and more dance-oriented. An excerpt from "Hir Ranjha," an 18th-century epic poem, was hushed and rhythmically free, but most of the songs were thumping and ecstatic, with melismatic vocal lines and singalong choruses.

Throughout the concert, the brothers were joined by two excellent U.S.-based Indian musicians, tabla player Haroon Alam and banjo player Mohammed Bashir. (Bashir's banjo is not the instrument commonly known to Americans, but a souped-up Punjabi folk instrument that resembled a cross between a sitar, a dobro and an autoharp.) Neither Alam nor Bashir had performed with the Niazis before, but that was never evident in their deft playing.

On my recent trip to Pakistan after almost 3 years, I could not help but notice Lahore Airport and its functions with a very critical eye. As my flight landed at Lahore at a wee hour, it was interesting to observe the long queues of passengers waiting to submit their paperwork and get a stamp at their passports. Children were crying at their full pitch and worried mothers looked miserable. I had to request one of the immigration officers to fetch some water for the kid who was driving everyone nuts. The officer was kind enough to do so and take both the mother and kid out of that queue and offered them a chair where they could breathe easily. That was very kind of him to listen to my concern.

The most frustrating part was the time the immigration officers took to add the passengers’ data in their computer. The airport staff had brand new flat-screened Dell Monitors, but it was obvious that the data entry clerks did not have enough training. After getting the passport stamped, the passenger proceeded to locate their luggage. It is amazing that in the past 10 years or so nothing significant has happened to the parking lot of Lahore Airport. And, the space allocated for parking is literally an insult to the word “Parking Space.”

On the outbound flight from Lahore, the following are the stops a sane/insane passenger has to go through:
Stop 1: Casual Stop: Customs
Stop 2: Getting the boarding pass and baggage checked in.
Stop 3: Exit Stamp on the passport: Here’s where the traumatic experience began again. Why would you install latest Dells when you have no clue how to use a system or I should say “best” use a system? The Lahore Airport Authorities need to sit with some database experts who can recommend them a system, which has the capacity to hold passenger data and the data entry clerks do not end up re-entering the whole information. At the time of entry, the passengers’ personal information is keyed in the system. It includes: name of the passenger, identity card number and passport number. All this and any other particulars that are required should be in the system when the passenger is departing. Ironically, the data entry clerks/immigration officers re-entered the same information in the system. Firstly, it was a waste of time of all the passengers and secondly it was a redundant effort. The clerks should have been able to retrieve the passenger’s information upon their departure.
Stop 4: Green Card/Visa/Passports Re-Analyzed:On this desk, a fellow was sitting at his comfortable seat in a very casual manner. The chap had a special infrared light to gauge the validity of green cards and some other foreign passports.
Stop 5: ECL: Exit Control List:For this desk, a shrewd fellow was assigned to grab passengers’ passports and punch in their numbers to check against the existing ECL. By this time, no one was in a very good mood; and the chap behind the desk realized it pretty well.
Stop 6: Luggage Tags Checked and Punched:This is the most annowing step before you get the hell out of the main hall where you as a passenger has already spent enormous amount of time from one desk to another.
Stop 7: Once the shuttle takes you to the aircraft, your punched tags are confirmed and re-checked before your embark your plane.

This whole process took at least 2.5 – 3 hours to catch my outbound flight. I was flying via Emirates and they provided an excellent service overall and were on time everywhere except when it came to leaving Lahore. They were delayed by almost 1.5 – 2 hours. Majority of the passengers made it on time and were in the aircraft waiting to be in the air, headed towards their respective destinations. Interestingly, the said delay was caused by the unending, redundant and repeated data entry.

The most positive part of the airport ordeal was seeing two young women immigration officers who were diligently performing their tasks side by side with the slow and irritating male clerks. I found them at the airport on both inbound as well as outbound trips. Everyone desired to be in the line where the women clerks were seated. The above was indeed a very positive change. And, I hope that next time, I don't see any lazy and old male immigration officers and only female clerks rule the Lahore Airport. It would be fun and above all very nice change. At least they did not look like criminals. The males had awefully long moonchain and very lazy and casual approach. It seemed they were in their living rooms than at work!

I wanted to bring the above mentioned since so many have been writing against the special registration process in place in the US. What about this "inefficient" and "long" process that one goes through in Pakistan? Why do we need to go through so many stops? Shall we ignore this whole turmoil as part of our culture? System? Mindset? What?

I was told that in 90 days time period, the new airport of Lahore will be up and running. Well, let's hope for the best and that means: less stops, better usage of the existing systems and more female workers at the airport than any lethargic and unruly creatures!

Kitey tusi Kirpal Kazak baare te gall nahi kar rahe. kyon ke ohna nu te main padeya hoya hai. Mainu ohna de naam di koi bujhaarat palley nahi paindi c. ke banda te punjabi hai te panjabi vich likhda hai par naa de piche KAZAK ki hoya bhala. par pher gal samajh aa gai c ke kyon. aapda bada dhanvaad ke tusi eh khus khabar APNA naal saanjhi kitti hai. Vaakai eho jehe lok saade HERO han Te saanu ohna da satkaar karna chahida hai.

Kitey tusi Kirpal Kazak baare te gall nahi kar rahe. kyon ke ohna nu te main padeya hoya hai. Mainu ohna de naam di koi bujhaarat palley nahi paindi c. ke banda te punjabi hai te panjabi vich likhda hai par naa de piche KAZAK ki hoya bhala. par pher gal samajh aa gai c ke kyon. aapda bada dhanvaad ke tusi eh khus khabar APNA naal saanjhi kitti hai. Vaakai eho jehe lok saade HERO han Te saada ohna nu satkaar karna chahida hai.

Lohri diyaaN vadaiyaaN bahut saariyaaN nu!

Sample-1
Sample-2

"Sohn Sohappan sao sao (hundreds) chohlaaN
Ishq chaRhiNda khhaare
Kih chaRh lathhe din niyaare" (Zaki)

JindRee char dinaaN di Rabba
Tay roulay saddiyaaN day
WaaNg kinnaray wakhhoo wakhhray
Wich paani naddiyaaN day

Hikk tay kattiaay kadd tak wayla
Baywas da kis kamm da hayla
Apnay ander taaNgaaN lay kay
Marr gae dil kaddiyaaN day

Jhut ussaray mahal chubaray
Matlab nal sab dayn saharay
SuchayaaN nouN ki puchhna lokaaN
Oo waaNgooN raddiyaaN day

Another problem these days are screen saver virus messages which are being received without the knowledge of the senders - deleting those also is a job without pay.

Koi V padyeshi HERO nahin honda, waqt paenda hai (waqt aanda te saab te hai par kuch logan te PAENDA hai) te kuch log oh kar vikhande ne, jo ki missal ban janda hai - Taan milda hai society nu ek HERO.

Hazaaron saal nargis apni benoori par rota hai Taab hota hai jakar chaman me deedwar paida

Agar oh HERO literary fields wich v kamaal kar chukya hove te es biradaari nu ues te zaroor fakar hoyega

Aaj mai tuhadi tawajo channa haan Prof Kazak waal. Chandigarh University te taaza tareen professor jo ki kade 10th class wich nahin gaye, hor jinhan ne apni jindgi pick-pocket gang taun shuroo ketee, ate jayadataar jindgi mason (Mistrigiri) kardeyaan gujari. Par aapni lekhani (stories & books) de daam te (Unhaan di stories kaeeen Universities de syllabus vich included ne) haal vich hi Chandigarh University vich Professor appoint kite gaye ne. Main eho jaye insaan nu really HERO manda haan ate apne Salaam pesh karda haan (Main bahut choota haan eho jaye personality nu mubarbaad den vaste).

Hor details layee, try http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=16523 Or go to Indian Express link today on www.samachar.com khush raho

On a lighter note, read Shiv Kumar Batalvi's poem titled "ISHTEHAAR", he has defined femenine beauty very well.It is on the APNA main page.
Here is the link to make your life easy.
http://www.apnahome.net/apnaorg/poetry/romanenglish/shiv-r/poem2.htm
Regards

Note: The Pakistani American Cultural Society will be hosting an event with a nice and lavish dinner for the Bari Eid. The theme of the program will revolve around "The Essence of Sufism." Just wanted to give some heads up to those in the East Coast area who may like to attend the program. The details will follow later. Regards.

Dear APNA friends, I am going a little slow as work has piled up and sehat was not so good after spending only 15 days in snow. dhan ne oh jehray sara siyal snow ch rehnday ne. I will return your messages as soon as possible. Take care.

Punjab - Ultimately, i would love to see all of Punjab reunite and become its own desh. Speaking for myself only, i do not regard non-Punjabi South Asians to be of the same kind as i am, and i do not identify myself as belonging to the same ethnic group or community as them. I also never identify myself as Indian, Pakistani, or Asian, but Punjabi. As far as religion is concerned, i dont use my religion to identify myself, ever, but that could be because i am not overly religious or believe my faith to be truer or superior to anyone else's, which sadly many people are/do.

Language - As far as i know there is no rule about nations having only one official script for their language. I believe both Gurmukhi and Shahmukhi scripts should stay and be taught side by side for generations to come. Yes, having two official scripts for the Punjabi language will mean double the work for everyone but why should that be a problem? It is a Punjabi trait that we are considered 'hard-workers', and anyway, knowledge of two different scripts can only increase the intelligence of the individual person...

Delhi - The majority of Delhi inhabitants are Punjabi's and still identify themselves as being so (Believe me i have family there) Punjabi spoken in Delhi is a little corrupted but the people still fluently speak the language.

Lahore - The one, true, capital of all Punjab.

Religion - Should not be an obstacle if efforts are made to appeal to all Punjabi's on a cultural, linguistic, and nationalistic level. All religions preach tolerance of others, religious leaders should make use of that and educate the community about those of other faiths and not portray them to be devious, suspicious, bad, out to convert us etc...

Haryana and Himachel Pradesh - Something wrong with opening Punjabi schools in these states and distributing Punjabi books, newspapers, magazines etc there?

Well, like always its easy to sit here and talk, dream etc... But all i can now say is that i fully and actively support any effort to bring about a reunion of Punjab, or if that realistically is not possible, then the two Punjab's to have a porous border where Punjabi's can freely travel from East to West and vice-versa.

Apna Punjab Zindabad!

Similarly in HP only a very few cities bordering Punjab can be said to claim Punjabi heritage,rest of them are speak DOGRI/Hindi and dont claim punjabi heritage.
Delhi in itself is a case study it is a Island of punjabi concentration surrounded by hindi speaking majority on all sides. of Delhi's border.

The last known true boundaries of Punjab were those at the time of end of Sikh rule in Punjab,during Ranjit Singh's Reign in 1840,s.
At that time the Eatern boundry of Punjab was River sutluj due to a treaty that Ranjit Singh enetered to with British.The western boundry of British Raj in turn was River Yamuna,thus excluding all of present day Hrayana and half of present day east Punjab, which was kind of a buffer state between the two powers.

Determining the concrete boundries of punjab in itself may be the biggest hurdle in envisioning ONE Punjab.
Regards

jich jich kay jibha kayhndi aay
mounh aai baat naa rayndi aay
.....................................Bulhay Shah

As for your suggestion about the diasporic state, I believe that it is actually happening (tho not in any organized way and perhaps we should thank god for that), but as you have seen, there are many who still hold on to outdated shikayats about this or that caste, this or that religion,etc. etc. Ad nauseum.

Bringing four Indian Panjabi territories together itself is almost impossible. All the forces except Panjabi language will not support such a union. Here Panjab can't even get Chandigarh or official Panjabi language status in Delhi. It will be considered highly destablizing. Assuming it happens, only then Pakistani Panjab could come in the picture.

Although India would not allow Panjab to gain independence and with very strong armed force, it is impossible to fight it out. The story would be worst in Pakistan because, unlike India, losing Panjab means end of Pakistan. It will be a bllodbath in both side of Panjab if independence is sought. Therefore it is not wise to think or act in that direction under current circumstances. Above all religions have to take back seat and Panjabis (excluding few like me) are not ready to decrease the importance of religon. Whatever good Sikhism, Hinduism, Sufism and Islam say about others, the fact is that they are divisive in practice and nobody is ready to raise Panjabiat above their religion.

It does not mean to lose hope, stop dreaming or acting. As a rule of human nature, easiest challenges are taken up first. The easiest challenge lies in the unity of sixth province - the diasporic Panjabis. The ease in uniting sixth province stems from the absence of nationalism, political boundries, language barriers and no chance of things getting out of hand because of strong law and order situation in Britain, Europe, Canada and USA. The sixth province can become pioneering force, shining light and an example for the remaining five territories. There must be a large secular Umbrella organization somewhere in UK, Canada or USA to act as a non-political government or a corporation. This organization must be respected and authoritative on the affairs of creating Panjabi unity. Let us call it Diasporic Panjabi Council (DPC). All Panjabis and Panjabis associations/ organizations must accept its superiority and abide by its guidelines. This is likely to happen in our lifetimes because it is more beneficial to diasporic Panjabis than Sikh, Muslim, Hindu, Pakistan nationalism and Indian nationalism based organizations. When and if this happens, the remaining five territories would think about finding ways to interact with each other preferentially, like European Union and mutually benefit without worrying about political independence.

Political independence is more of an emotional issue. For example, it does not matter to a Panjabi in Multan, if he is being ruled from Islamabad or Lahore. The problem in our societies is injustices. If Panjabi culture and language is treated justly in Panjab, we wouldn't be complaining about the status of Panjabi language in Pakistan. Does political independence solve all the injustices? I don't think so.

I may have controversial opinion here but I think, Unionist party was more right than Muslim League and Congress in the context of Panjab during late 1930s and early 1940s because they were looking at the interests of Panjab and thought that they are better served by delaying independence and having Panjabi presence at the negotiation table to deal with the details of independence. As it turned out, there was no presence of Panjabi representation.

The dye was cast by our eminent national heroes on either side that divided - and further divided and likely to divide again whenever convenient - Panjab on the first place. Such a major event is not easily reversible.

Frankly speaking, our religions and united Panjab can not go hand in hand. They have to be relegated to secondary, tertiary or personal level or accept the religion based divide. Last and perhaps most important thing is numbers. A united Panjab would be as dominated by Panjabi Muslims politically as Pakistan is due to their numbers. All democratic government would have Muslim domination and knowing the conservative Panjabi Muslims up-close, even I would not be interested in political domination by them. A united Punjab ruled by Chaudhries of Gujrat in the name of Jatt brotherhood is worse than separate Panjabs.

Panjabi mind has to become liberal, secular, progressive and educated before thinking about uniting Panjab.

First of all I think we have to have a 100% literacy rate in both punjab's,to create a pool of receptive minds.
Then we need a final written script or the ability of people to adopt either script(Shahmukhi/Gurmukhi)
Above all we need organisations like this present "APNA" forum, almost in every major punjabi city of both sides.

For now the "TO DO" list is endless.
It may be a long time before we even get a final glimpse of a united punjab.
Regards.

Saare Aapneyaan Nu Valaiti Navain Saal Di MubaarakBaad

kaafi chir baad kujh time milya hai kujh likhan da. kaafi gallan baataan ho rahiyaan han. Par maaf karna Mirja Sahibaan te Chet mahine de gal-baat nu chad ke baaki Rondeyaan te Hasdeyaan di gal-baat koi palley nahi pai rahi. Khorey Meri Matt hi ainee ku hai.

Jithe tak punjabi New year de baare lokaan nu bhulekha hai oh jaaiZ bhi hai ke oh sochde ne ke Visakhi nu Punjabi nava saal mande han. kyon ke Visakhi as a Khalsey da janam din hai te Khalsey saare sikhaan to aaye han(Mostly I guess) Is karke oh Visakhi di celebration nu hi punjabi new year vaang manaaonde han. Vaise as bali said Chet to hi Punjabi Saal di Starting hai.

Tinku Ji, Kehndey tusi bilkul theek ho ke je Insaan Sufne na lave te jindgi Be-ras ho jaandi hai. te jithe tak Uche Sufne Di gal hai. Eh te ise tarah hai ke punjabi di kahaout hai ke je"gallan da kadaaH hi banaona hai te Mitha Ghat Kyon Rakhiye" so tinku ji keep it up. Koi pata nahi rab de rang neyaarey han Ki da ki kar dave koi pata nahi. Vaise dohaan Mulkaan de siyaasatdaan jadon tak aapni gandi siyaasat vich rujhe han tadon tak te eh sufna bas sufna hi hai. baaki Rabb Sacha mehar kare te Ki nahi ho sakda. Aapna Naara Buland Hona Chahida Hai.

APNA PUNJAB ZINDABAD

Basically we have to look for two items. One, who was the first one to write Miza SahibaaN story. When and where did the author live and what were his beliefs. Second, if Mirza and SahibaaN are the original names or the choice of the author who may have been influenced by the Mughal dynasty. In the case of Heer Ranjha, thanks to Damodar Das, we know roughly the timeframe but with Mirza SahibaaN, I do not think we are so fortunate. Similarly there are things in the story that suggest it to be of later times such as reference to tobacco, imam masjid, madrassah attached to mosque and girls also going to madrassahs etc unless all these things are filler material by the poets.

It is difficult to pinpoint the time of Mieza SahibaaN event. It is widely believed to be post Heer Ranjha, therefore, it should be post Mughal King Akbar era. The village to which Mirza belonged, Danabad, still exists and still inhibited by the same Jat clan known as Kharrals. I believe, SahibaaN was also a Sial, like Heer. It is also the time before the arrival of British and guns, and the adoption of name Mirza in the deep countryside indicates later Mughal period because Mirza title was adopted by Mughal princes much later - often used by the male distant relatives of the king since number of relatives must have grown quite large in 6-7 generations since the arrival of Babar. Similarly the time between indigenous names like Heer and Persianized SahibaaN also suggest much later period. Therefore 18th century or later seems most likely timeframe.

That is swaal gandam jawaab channa, if you got my drift.

I am getting ready to prepare a review of Punjabi Publications in 2002 for the Dawn. I have asked a number of people to provide me their opinion on which were the most important Punjabi books (Novel, Short Story collections, Poetry collections, Criticism, etc. - published in Pakistan, India or abroad) or any other comments on Punjabi publications in 2002, including about magazines and newspapers, If any of you have any opinion or information about any Punjabi book published in 2002 or other Punjabi publications, kindly either post it here on the Discussion Forum or send me an e-mail. I am also greatly interested in learning about Punjabi publications, books, magazines, newspapers, that are published in countries other than India and Pakistan, in UK, USA, Canada and other countries. I will greatly appreciate any input. I plan to complete the article in a week or so. Thanks.

paalay da muR tutaya zor
waadiaN walay paawan shor
phhuli sarsooN jaagay sufnay
dil jangle wich nachan mor

her chehray tay khusiaN chaRhiaN
kankaaN roop wakhhawan khaRiaN

rang basanti cholay paa kay
kattan chhattan aayaaN baRiaN

rut dittay dukhh saaray khhor
paalay da muR tutaya zor

Wajay gajay dhol pay waj day
geetaaN naal pai wailay saj day
boliaN tappay gidda bhangRay
naal dhamalaaN bailay gaj day

Dittay vair subhaaN nai tor
paalay da muR tutaya zor

The purpose of posting something on discussion forums is different than writing paper, book or article.

yar koi banda joke shoke ee paste kar dia kare. banda thoori dair lai hass ee lainda aey.

yar koi banda joke shoke ee paste kar dia kare. banda thoori dair lai hass ee lainda aey.

yar koi banda joke shoke ee paste kar dia kare. banda thoori dair lai hass ee lainda aey.

Today I had to explain same to a dear friend in Karachi Pakistan. Most indigenous cultures of the world celebrate new year around the time of Spring - as new begining of flowers, plants etc. The Chinese Ser, the Persian Nauroz and Christian Easter (Roman New Year) are basically begining of new years. Similarly in subcontinent, the arrival of spring falls around the end of February to early March and Basant is infact a celebration of new year according to Panjabi Hindu Claendar. However, in the countryside and villages, this is the time to tend (Rakhi) of crops and they can not leave, drink and celebrate. It has to wait until crops are reaped and that is first day of seconf month - Vasakhi. So theoretically and technically chet is right but practically it is vasakhi - begining of the new year.

Now Sajid Chaudhary can theoretically give desi gheo da peepa to whoever he likes but it should be used (practically) by Sardarz. Here is little more details, copied from an article:

In April this year, the people of Bangladesh, celebrating the beginning of the year as Pehla Vaishakha, were attacked by groups of religious fanatics, much in the same way as their brothers in Pakistan attack the New Year celebrations on 31st December. In Pakistan, Vaishakha or Baisakh is kept alive by the Sikhs who visit Pakistan on their New Year. Guru Gobind Singh set up the khalsa army in the month of Vaishakha, and the great Sikh gathering, Sarbat Khalsa, decided to celebrate the day with the festival of Baisakhi, climaxed by a congregation of all Sikhs at Panja Sahib located today in Pakistan. The Punjabi Naujawan Mahaz in Lahore issued their own calendar in the same month this year beginning with Vaishakha (April-May). The Punjabi calendar is more or less forgotten in the Punjabi cities, although the rural man still refers to Punjabi months when discussing his crops. Punjabi folklore refers to the old months but the urban Punjabi can hardly make out what that means. Urdu songs sometimes contain reference to the seasons by naming the old months simply because poetry will not always accept English months.

The Punjabi Calendar: The Punjabi pronunciation of the Hindu month was given as Vasakh. The Hindu lunar calendar begins with Chaitra called Chait (March-April) in Punjabi, but it appears that the people of Punjab and Bangladesh think that it begins with Vaishakha which, like the names of other months, is the name of a group of stars. While the first month Vaishakha is of 31 days, the next Jyeshtha (in Punjabi Jetth) is of 32 days and falls in May-June. Jyeshtha also means ‘big’. Asharha (June-July) of 31 days is simply pronounced Haar in Punjabi and is named after a constellation, but is associated with flooding in agricultural Punjab, and the word har is used for flood. Hindi Sharavana (July-August) called Savan and sometimes Saun in Punjabi is associated with rains. Bhadrapada of 31 days should mean ‘pretty-footed’ is named after a group of stars and is called Bhadron or Bhadon in Punjabi. Ashivina of 31 days is clearly named after a group of stars meaning ‘horses’. It is called Assu in Punjabi. Karttika (October-November) is of 29 days and called Ketar or Katta in Punjabi. Margashirsha (November-December) is of 30 days and is called Maghar is Punjabi. Pausha (December-January) of 29 days is named after a group of stars Pushya which means ‘plenty of food’ and is called Poh or Pos in Punjabi. Magha (January-February) also of 29 days means ‘gift’ and is called Maagh in Punjabi. Phalguna (February-March) of 30 days is called Phagan in Punjabi. And Chaitra after constellation Chitra (March-April) is of 31 days and is called Chetar or simply Chet in Punjabi. Six months are of 31 days, while one Jyeshtha alone is of 32 days. The lunar calendar is adjusted through complicated calculations to remain true to seasons. In Urdu and Punjabi poetry reference is sometimes made to the months to denote seasonal moods. For instance, Savan evokes rain and the romance associated with it. In the Punjabi countryside, the lunar calendar is used even today to refer to seasons.

Safir Rammah: Regarding the January 11th event: what if it snows and there is a hail storm? Phir Kya Hoga? The way the weather conditions are unfolding, you never know what may happen in the next few days and weeks. If someone specially drives up, she would like to know the backup plan or the disaster recover plan. Kindly comment. Regards.

na chham chham neer baha kuRiay
ays ishq day kam tou Aa muRiay
kujh labhna nai ayna karaaN wich
phair ishq di raah tay ki turiay

chann oo chann
meray dil nouN lai aa sann
kadd kay lay gaya waiN mann
hoe khabar na kanooN kann
chann oo chann
rachayaa looN looN tera pyar
touN hi mera wich waiN yar
bhulayaa mainu apna tann
chann oo chann
bin teray na pal da chayn
laR gae jadouN day nayn
wass day wich na mera mann
chann oo chann
sunn lay meray dil day bol
jhat touN bayh ja meray kol
taaNgh touN mere na bhann
chann oo chann

Shahnaz Malik: The happy new year message was from Safir Rammah. Anyway, Happy New Year from Sameer too.

Anybody interested in chat right now?

KiniaaN AasaaN lay kay naal
Aayaa phair nawaaN eik saal

shayed kujh tabdilee aaway
jay kar baldlan souch khayal

waisay jay kar muR kay waikhoo
maazi chubday karay sawaal

yaaraaN laag day mahal usaray
ishq kitaabaaN ditiaaN baal

paar dinnaa wich jo kujh hoya
bhul jaawoo dil khulay naal

kal da suraj lay kay aa way
sab lai khushiaaN di sur taal

pyar bunay ais jagg da shaywa
badal laway aay dunniya chaal

I am in the middle of snow right now and enjoying it very well so for with maximum number of my family members together at one place in the last few years...shikway shikayetaN, chuglian, puraanian galaN, family mvideos, kids doing hall gulla etc etc everythign going at the same time.:)

Happy new year to you all if I don't see come to this page again by new year.

MTM: that was a very beautiful geet. Keep it up.

Sahibjaadeyaan di sheedee baare ik hor ref. hai. ke Sirhind vich jis Jallaad ne sahibjadeyaan nu saheed kita c. Os jallaad di Aj di generation da ik banda hai jo ke sikhi da Parcharak hai. main ik programme vekhya c te oh programme canada ton produce hoya c. That person do the Katha(story telling) with so humility and passion that all the time you are listening you are crying. He is a blind person. when he was interviwed he was asked as a Muslim person why you do the Parchar for Sikhi and do Shirkat in Sikh gurdwara Diwans and do the Katha. His explanation was that"Mere Bajurgaan ne Sikh Dharam di itni Haani(damage) kitti hai. Ke os Rabb ne mere dil vich eh jot(Light) jaga ditti hai ke Main ohna Bahadur Sahibjadeyaan di Shaheedee di Katha Suna ke aapne Vadeyaan de Paap(sin)Dhon(wipeout)da koi vaseela kar sakaan.

It is a request to you if you are able to find out any part of his appereance or any part of his Katha you can play on your radio show whenever it is appropriate. you will be amazed to hear him. Good Luck With you Quest. RABB RAKHA

mairee kahani mairee jind tak rayhni aay
phair kissay na sunani aay na kayhni aay

mairiaN peeRaaN mairay dard mairay tak nai
mairay bootay saway zard mairay tak nai
mairay tak hi mairiaN souchaaN khaab khayal
mairay haasay haawaaN sard mairay tak nai

mairay jussay naal her eik shay tayhni aay
mairee kahani mairee jind tak rayhni aay

phair kissay ki karna yaad way yaraaN nouN
chukday phirday loki apnay bhaaraaN nouN
housh kissay na phirdi akhhiaaN khholan ki
jindRee khoob phhasayaa aay dildaraaN nouN

jo aowni takdirooN oo tay sayhni aay
mairee kahani mairee jind tak rayhni aay

Indeed kadey-kadey is begani dharti te v kujh eise nazaarey vekhan nu mil jaande ne ke bado-badi dil vich pind di yaad aa jurdi hai. Bhaavein kise v rutt di gall hove. kade kade oh tuhade saahmney Is tarah da najaara pesh kardi hai ke os Kaadr Di Kudrat te Asquey jaan nu G karda hai. Enjoy the moment while u can. PEACE

Reason you did not receive many suggestions is because you asked "bazurgs"..and God knows we don't have many around here...aithey asiN saare ajjay jawaani di dehleez upper pairr dhar ee rahe aan.:)

Kuldip Takhar had at one time shown some interest in arranging a program for Niazi brother's in California. They will be here until the third week of January. You may want to check with Kuldip Takhar if he is still interested. Niazi Brothers are in Newy York now where they arrived a couple of days ago.

Bali: Your findings were great as usual. And, by the way, as far as height is concerned I think you were just being open about your liking which was so sweet. Iss main shurmanae kee koi zaroorut naheen :) I suggest that you change that little humpty dumpty emoticon with a tall one. That will portray your true liking :) :) On your other remark, I agree a lot of work is needed there :D Just between you and me, if I start stating all the areas where work is needed, the list is long that the end result will become boring for all.

Dullah Bhatti: Happy Holidays! :)

sabar kareeN, naa-umeed naa hoveeN, lesayN ajar janaboN

maThey kam hoven rehmaanee, behtar kaar shataaboN.

Its English translation: Be patient and never lose hope. You will get your reward from God. Works done with patience are Divine and they are better than works done in irrational hurry.

Taken from my next book on Mian Mohammad Bakhsh.

I feel sad that I sent two books at your home address and these were sent through registerred post.If your Dad could not get them it is because of all that rot system which we always curse on the board. The other excuse of Sajid Bhaee is accepted so don't lose interest in the book.

Sardar Saheb: Still you are way off.

Bali, also not everyone is capable of realizing the inner beauty of others. It takes one to know one.

Not everyone is able to take their own advice either in my experience. Its quite remarkable how often people jump to conclusions about others, based on their own warped thinking.

Sameer ji,
I am with you on this, also I should have said the Punjabi women,south east asian women in that order :-).

Bali Ji,
Kadh Kaath vi taan part of looks hi hai.Though I will never get one due to physical dissimilarities, I have to say "shorter" women are more prettier,like Jaya Bahduri,jaya pradha etc ;-)

Dullab Bhatti: Thanks for pointing out what irked you. I will write you a detailed note later inshallah.

Bali: No offense meant, whoever equates beauty with height the are loony tunes. It's a relative concept. To me, beauty is equal to sweetness. Bali, also not everyone is capable of realizing the inner beauty of others. It takes one to know one.

I agree with you 100 percent about this profound truth. My limited interaction with them over the years at professional level has always been wonderful experience, particularly with the ones who are not Muslim or Christian. I see large number of them at my Buddhist temple also.

If I have my way, I would make Panjab part of Southeast Asia and part of ASEAN.

mehndi
kujh din haath tay rayhndi
phair bhaiRy
ja layndi
per way dhola
na tou mainouN
dil tay apnay
mehndi wagraaN laaNweeN
aakhri saahwaaN tak tou sajna
mera saath nibhaweeN
aay gal tainu kayhndi
mehndi
nai rayhndi
bhayRe
kujh din wich ja layndi

"I am really disappointed at you that on one hand you are so upset by the simple mention of number of Ghalib's book in comparison to the one in discussion but on the other hand you did not hesitate for a second to insult the intelligence of all of APNA members by insinuating that they can't understand verses deeper than the one you quoted.We all know Saeed is a publisher and bookseller besides a writer who looks at books from another angle also..how many are sold and who bought them. Thats his business and he understand it very well."

This thought never struck me. I am not part of the "we" in the above discovery. I never took him for a businessman. I read him completely differently. Someone who cares to promote his language and is very emotional. Do not ever bracket all in one bucket.

"But knowledge of that fact did not hinder you from attacking intelligence of all APNA members, did it?

Uff...the allegations and the point by point hammering:(

"It is you who is insecure about the comment and cover it by saying oh ji Ghalib is so great he can't be understood by the "common masses". and why should they (understand him)?"

Dullah Bhatti: Lurnae Murnae Main Bhee Aik Excitement Hae. Aik Maza Hae. If we all agree with each other always then what's there to diScuss and learn and explore about each other. Ok, I am pretty damn insecure. Then, what? I am insecure about many other aspects of life as well. Shall I list them here for your perusal? Kindly inform. I would love to oblige. I promise my articulation will be very inspirational :) Kindly let me know your preference...do you want it in a poetic form or a narrative version?

"I ask why should masses read poetry at all?"

Indeed it's your query and a genuine one. Very valid question :) I will pass it on to the wise ones.

"It should be the business of few upper class up-tight intelligent individuals who consider every one else, who does not have same interests in poetry as theirs, of sub-human intelligence.

It's a piece of cake to counter the above, laiken having "some" idea about you from your interactions as well as a meeting, I can tell that you were hurt by my views. I won't defend my arguments at all. But, why were you hurt? Why should you be hurt? What was there to feel bad about?

On the other end, the verses where he said that:
~Ik Brahman Nae Kaha Hae Keh Yeh Saal Aachaa Hae
seems very applicable to APNA FORUM :)

Ichabal De saare poets main aapni pichli post vich mention kitey san. baaki meri eh koshish rehndi hai ke music es tarah da labehya jaave jo ke poets aap gaya hove par as you know ke is vich tohanu itni kaamyaabi nahi mildi te jis tarah da v litrary music available hai oh kujh aisi music companies ne record kita hunda hai ke ohna vaaste eh cheez koi maaine nahi rakhdi ke likhan vaaleyaan nu v credit dita jaave naale khas karke punjabi poetry de concern vich. Sometime I wonder ke there are so many good songs most of them are good pieces of poetry are out there but saanu ohna de likhan vaaleyaan de naam nahi pata. Asi lok aapne anjaan Pune vich ohna geetaan nu kise hor likhari naal jod deida hai. jiven jadon meri Arthi which was sung by Asa Singh Mastana Main Kaafi chir tak eh socda reha ke eh song Shiv Batalvi da hai. But I am more careful now as to I think It is my Sabiacharak Duty to give proper credit to proper likhari.

It is a matter of great satisfaction for us that the first edition of "Great Sufi Wisdom Waris Shah" was finished within forty days (1100 copies) and the second edition (1100 copies) is again published yesterday. Pakistan Asian Study Circle, Islamabad ordered 300 copies of the book which were delivered just an hour before. They wanted to distribut them among their members (dignitaries). Price of the book Rs.20, pages 64 and quality of paper is British 80 gram. So if anyone see this book and he has a mild touch with the land (in fact roots) he is ready to buy it. Now I am working on Mian MOhammad Bakhash, the manuscript is ready. I have chosen 200 verses of Saif-ul-Malook and these all are tranliterated and translated. The copies of manuscript are in the hands of English language experts (I don't stand anywhere but I love my roots and I wish to see them very strong, that is only a simple wish and spirit behind all this work) and I am sure that the book on Mian Mohammad Bakhsh will also be in market within one month. I feel it will be more popular in this region, the area where Mian Mohammad Bakhsh rules ie ( Azad Kashmir, Distt. Jhelum, Pindi, Hazara, Gujrat and with less calculation other parts of Punjab) it will be also published soon within one month. I opened a book and stationery shop for my younger brother and the books are sold at this shop. I could not sell even five books of Shaer-e-Mashriq and even not a single book of Ghalib, though they were great poets but surprisingly, I could sell such huge quantity of Waris Shah's book. It is a miracle. I am not very optimist but now after this experience I am not even pessimist. I humbly request you that I need your good wishes and prayers in this mission. Thanks for patience.

Eh tere pyar de pattr Mainu labhna paina hai vaise eh gayi Jagjit Jirvi ne. Saiyo ni Dhal Chaliyaan Pippal Diyaan Chaavaan likhya hoya hai Bawa Balwant ne te Gaya hoya hai dilraj Kaur da Ichabal CD vich. Te Jehra Akhiyaan Geet baare tusi pucheya hai. es te taan kai geet han so please be more spicific. I recommend you to buy this cd name Ichabal. It is produced by North Zone Culture Centre and it has poetry written by some of famous Modern Poets like Bhai vir Singh,Kartar Singh Balgan,Nand Lal Noorpuri,Dhani Ram Chatrik,S.S. Meesha,Bawa Balwant,Pr. Mohan Singh Te Shiv Batalvi. te Singers han Jagjit singh,Asha Bhosle,dilraj Kaur, Sukhvinder,Vinod Sehgal, Paramjit Sidhu(PAMMI BAI)and Chitra SIngh. Main Eh CD Kise tareekey naal Sasfir ji Nu de deni hai Kyon ke eh ik Saahkaar Cheez hai jis baare sab nu pata lagna chahida hai. Changa G Rab Rakha

Aapa eh poem Saave Pattr Waley Mohan Singh di Rachna hai. Mere kolon Meri work site te Sun Work Station hai jis te mainu cut paste nahi Aonda. Par je tusi Discussion Forum De previous pages te Jaavo te 10 june 2002 tareek de vich mere Naam de under eh pooro Kavita main post kitti C. Tusi othon Parh sakde ho. Mere kol is di Audio v hai Jo Main Safir ji nu deni hai web te laan lai.

Does anbody know who is the writer of the poem Aapa? Pyaare pyaare, nanhe taare is the first line.

If you have the poem could anyone post it on this forum?

Tusi kise v aapne sikh Mitr nu kaho ke mainu Jantri chahidi hai. eh ik tarah da calander hai jis vich ke sikh religous days te baaki holidays baare pata lagda hai te es vich dates dono tareekey naal darj ne like Jan Feb te small latters vich desi mahine diyaan tareekaan like Chait Visakh te ekam Dooj. Try karo je nahi mildi te mainu aapna pata devo main mail kar dena han. Ik gall hor je tusi kise gurdwarey de laage rehndey ho te tohadi mushkil hor v jaldi theek ho sakdi hai. kyon ke othe te tohanu definatly Jantri mil jaayegi. Good Luck

Why do American women mimic male body language.This phenonmenon has always perplexed me.The English language addresses Female as WOMEN(One who Woo's a Man) ;-).
How can a female woo a man, by being just like him ?
Atleast we do not see this behaviour in Females of our Eatern culture's.Not that I have anything against such body language,but I just could'nt help myself from thinking about the Quote Gursharan ji mentioned in his last Post"Aourat hi Aourat di dushman hai.

Husband jailed for rape attack

A man has been jailed for three years for raping his wife, before making references to a similar EastEnders storyline. The Barry, south Wales, man attacked the woman in their lounge after she refused to have sex because she was suffering post-natal depression. Cardiff Crown Court heard he then asked her: "Does it make you feel like Little Mo?"

Prosecuting, Susan Ferrier referred to the plot in the BBC One television soap, in which character Mo Slater is serving eight years in prison for attempting to murder husband Trevor Morgan after enduring years of rape and domestic abuse. The husband, 29, and wife, 28, involved in the court case cannot be named for legal reasons.

'Blank stare'

The man had told his partner the violence was her own fault. He called her a "selfish bitch" before raping her on 9 March. He had ordered her to strip and stared at her before the attack in the living room, when he asked if she felt like the character. The court heard she replied: "No, because at least Trevor was nice to her afterwards. You were nasty and still shouting at me."

Later, the man went into a "blank stare" - he admitted he had raped his wife when a doctor called at the home. Miss Ferrier claimed the pair's marriage hit the rocks after the wife suffered post-natal depression following the birth of their daughter. "He was not able to see this as a medical problem. He saw it as rejection," she said. "He kept on to her that she was not showing enough affection to him."

The woman had gone to police to report her husband after the incident.

Child abuse

Defending, Andrew Taylor said: "He maintains he still loves his wife. He is very sorry for the hurt and torture he put her through. "He has lost contact with his child and that is punishment." He said his client, who was sexually abused as a child, had no memory of the attack. "On the day he had been prescribed drugs by a GP. He was also using illicit drugs," he said. "It may be that the combination of drugs and the anti-depressants and his feelings of abuse came to a head at a time when he wanted sex." Judge Roderick Denyer QC ordered the man be placed on the sex offenders' register indefinitely.

Soap storyline

EastEnders writers had scripted the plot involving shy, retiring Little Mo' in an echo of real-life scenes of domestic violence. Actors Kacey Ainsworth and Alex Ferns won fans for their portrayal of Mo and Trevor.

The BBC said it the storyline had also encouraged many people to seek help for similar problems. But the Broadcasting Standards Commission ruled episodes violent episodes on Christmas Day and New Year's Eve 2001 were too gruesome to be shown before the 2100 GMT watershed. In one show, Trevor pushed Mo's face into a Christmas lunch. Later, she hit him over the head with an iron - an act for which she was later controversially jailed.

Husband jailed for rape attack

A man has been jailed for three years for raping his wife, before making references to a similar EastEnders storyline. The Barry, south Wales, man attacked the woman in their lounge after she refused to have sex because she was suffering post-natal depression. Cardiff Crown Court heard he then asked her:

Tusi bilkul theek kehndey ho ke jadon teek eh rape karan waley Jaanwaraan(Kyon ke eho jehe Jurm karan wale Insaan te nahi na ho sakde)nu phahe nahi tangeya jaana tadon teek eh jurm chalde rehney ne. Phiche jehe India de lok-sabha vich eh awaaz uthi c ke rape de gunaahgar nu phaansi honi chahidi hai. kaafi changi gall c. par parh ke kaafi dukh hoya ke lok-sabha diyaan female leaders hi is Muddey te Do-phad ho giyaan san. Eh parh ke es tarah lageya ke vaderey theek hi kehndey ne ke Aourat hi Aourat di dushman hai. Pata nahi ke es gall Kinni ku theek hai par hall di Ghadi te saadi lok-sabha vich te eh gall sach hi hundi Jaapdi hai.

duja aay gang rape - tay oo zorawar da hali todree tay haq banaya hoya aay. jadoon tak qanoon tay insaaf wich sudhaar nai aownda aay sab kujh aynj ee raway ga. essi cheek cheek kay gal thaka laan gay per lokaan nou aqal nai aowni jad tak her aay jirm karan wala phae nai lagda

Regards

sorry to get back to your quary so late. the kind of help you are looking for I need some more info. like how far are you from Toranto and its subarban area. because if you guys are not far from there I can recommand you lots of people in this field. let me know you can reach me at my bijli-daak de through. So Long

Rape is reportedly widespread in PunjabAt least 461 women were killed by family members in Pakistan in 2002, the country's independent Human Rights Commission says. So-called "honour killings" are up by nearly 25% on last year's reported total of 372, its latest figures show. Unfortunately, police in Pakistan either don't arrest such killers or they are not treated as murderers Kamila Hayat, Human Rights Commission.
The commission urged greater protection for women, and said at least as many had been raped as killed in the last year. Most honour crimes are carried out by men who believe their actions will defend the reputation of their family.
In the southern province of Sindh alone there were more than 300 honour killings, the report said. And some 161 women or girls were killed by relatives in the central province of Punjab. There were no figures for the rest of Pakistan where information, particularly in rural areas, is often difficult to obtain. Awareness "Crimes against women continued to rise this year," senior commission official Kamila Hayat told the Associated Press. She says the commission lacks resources to operate in some of the most conservative areas of Baluchistan and North Western Frontier Provinces.
Commission officials say the number of killings could be much higher, as they are still compiling a full report on crimes against women. Officials also said the rise in reported cases may be partly due to better awareness among family members or neighbours who are now coming forward to report crimes they would have ignored in the past. In June this year, the community-ordered gang rape of Mukhtiar Bibi in Punjab triggered national and international outrage. Laws changed In that case, six men were convicted of attacking her and sentenced to hang. But in most honour killings, those guilty are rarely punished. "Unfortunately, police in Pakistan either don't arrest such killers or they are not treated as murderers," Ms Hayat said. The authorities, however, say steps have been taken to reduce crimes against women. "The government has recently made some changes in the laws to give more protection to the women," Javed Iqbal Cheema at Pakistan's Interior Ministry told the Associated Press. But human rights activists say more needs to be done. We need collective efforts to save women from brutal crimes," Ms Hayat said.

Rammah ji: I am going to make a request and please try to fulfill it(inspite of the fact that I procrastinate too much on your requests:-) I just realized I never sent you the Ahmad Rahi page). Anyway request is: I have heard lot about Sharfi Ragi and Sadeeq Ragi but never listened to them. Can you put something from their very vast portfolio on APNA?

Dahda guRa rang ishq da
kiss taae aap lukaayee
dushman ishq day log azal touN
seenay phat paae khayee

La yaari nal bayparwa day
apna aap rulaayee
naa oo bolay na oo sunda
gum sum kidhar jaayee

oos day aown di aas umeedaaN
dil wich baiTth jagaayee
sut sut chhat tay roti tukar
aap paae kaag bulaayee

Babar Niazi is coming to New York tomorrow or day after tomorrow. I gave him one packet of books "Great Sufi Wisdom - Waris Shah" and a bunch of fotos of Waris Shah plus one copy Puncham and a copy of Sver. JO kujh hazir mela see oh meN ohnaaN de bhanjhey nooN phaRa dita. I hope he will deliver you. Distribute these books and posters to APNA friends as a small gift from Pakistan. Safir Jee, Did you arrange his (Baber Niazi's) program there or not?