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Name: Rajput - February 10, 2002
E-mail: rajputpunjabi@yahoo.com
My URL:
Location: San Jose, CA     USA
Comments:   I couldn't say it any better than Javed Zaki...


Name: Javed Zaki - February 10, 2002
E-mail: Zakimoha@msu.edu
Comments:   Sajno te mitro! Panjabi bhaNveeN kehRe ilaake di e oh saadi jind-jaan e

PanjjaN paaniaaN dhota ik ik akhhar saadi boli da
SaaNjh sohappan maanan kaaran ehda i rus gholi da


Name: DullaBhatti - February 10, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   rajput ji, I have learned by following some lessons from ukindia.com website. Here is the address for the Urdu lessons. http://www.ukindia.com/zurdu1.htm
It would be better if you know an elder who already knows Urdu..it is great help when you are stuck with some problem they can help. Basically you already know the language, all you need is to recognize words in the sentence....you can do that with very basic training in the Urdu script. Once you start reading slowly you will pick up things very quickly. Best of luck.


Name: Rajput - February 10, 2002
E-mail: rajputpunjabi@yahoo.com
My URL:
Location: San Jose, CA     USA
Comments:   Howdy ppl, do any of you know of some good books that teach the arabic alphabets? I already know gurmukhi, it'd be great if I learned the other half of punjabi as well. Any guidance in this matter will be great. Thank you in advance. Rab Rakha!!


Name: DullaBhatti - February 10, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Location: San Jose,      USA
Comments:   sabh ton pehlaN te mere rajput sher jawaana welcome to the forum. Seriously, we need more people here with differing views yet same aim(of promoting the language and punjabi brotherhood). I would say let us not get into mud-slinging because of what sounds like a misunderstanding. for me it is enough that we all love our language and stand behind it, rest is a minor detail.

I consider the accents spoken in areas other than where I grew up as sweeter ...that is not limited to only West Punjabis. One of my best friends is from RopaR district and I think his mother speaks very sweet Punjabi. On the other hand many of my pakistani friends tell me yaar tooN bahut mithi Punjabi bolda ain...so what is it? I think it is that all these people give respect to the other accents instead of saying degrading things about them like some folks..eh Doabaiye(replace it with lahoriye,majhail, multanis etc) baRhi bhairhee boli bolde ne etc. So for me case is closed..I think all accents are sweeter than Ambersari.:-)

Fahim ji, so feudals will not misuse Governmetnal infrastructure if you scare them of teaching Urdu instead of Punjabi to kammi kids? or they are stroign their tooRhi in school building because you don't teach tehm Punjabi? which is the case? I totally understand the problem of feudalims or administrative inefficiency but they don't relate to the medium of education in schools. of course that problem needs to be solved also for the overall betterment of the Punjabi society....although feudalism takes many forms...big land owners are only one form of it.


Name: Sandeep Grewal - February 10, 2002
E-mail: sgrewal@lycos.com
Location: LA, CA     USA
Comments:   I forgot to say, rajput was a bit rude or harsh, but then again if somebody told me that somebody speaks better than me, i'd be pissed too...


Name: Sandeep Grewal - February 10, 2002
E-mail: sgrewal@lycos.com
Location: LA, CA     USA
Comments:   I agree with rajput punjab. No dialect is better or worse, but just different. And, pakistan don't speak better punjabi than sikhs. It's all equal !!


Name: Mahmud Fahim - February 10, 2002
E-mail: agsmz@yahoo.com
Comments:   Dullah jee: its really very hard to realize the consequences of fuedal system on the society of Punjab by sitting here in USA. I came here just a year ago and I know on the basis of my own observations that the buildings of the primary and middle schools are in personal use of fuedals, for their storage, for their cattles and other ACTIVITIES. The teachers are ordered not to come to the schools. The caste system is the most powerful criteria. Kammis have to serve fudels due to food and less oppertunities due ot lack of industrialization and education. The language is a very romantic and unrealistic thought for a hungry person. In words of Munno Bhai:

Tareekh Tamasha BukhaN Da, Tehzeeb Khadonna RujjaN Da
Tanqeed Jugalli LafzaN De, Tashheer Siappa Lujjan Da
Moseeqi Rattab Kuttian Da Tey Adab Gattawa MajjhaN Da
Per Ajay Qiamatt NaiN Aiee


Name: Silas - February 10, 2002
E-mail: silasd@agsimpson.com
Location: hamilton, ont,      Canada
Comments:   The moderators of APNA page should consider adding a Punjabi dictionary. All the punjabi's of the world can have an input into its' development. This way, at least a person like myself can begin to understand Heer Waris Shah etc.


Name: Silas - February 10, 2002
E-mail: silasd@agsimpson.com
Location: hamilton, ont,      Canada
Comments:   The moderators of APNA page should consider adding a Punjabi dictionary. All the punjabi's of the world can have an input into its' development. This way, at least a person like myself can begin to understand Heer Waris Shah etc.


Name: Humayun - February 10, 2002
E-mail: hanji12345@yahoo.com
Location: Ottawa, ON     Canada
Comments:   I have heard a song long time ago by Mohd. Rafi "naeen rees Punjab dee". Could anybody here direct me to the source and how and where to get this song?


Name: Bali K Deo - February 10, 2002
E-mail: swaraj@shaw.ca
Comments:   ~O sheesh mahal de vaasiya...Doojiya de naa suth pathhar...~Dil saarf eh tera kora kagaz...ukar jaan na dard de akhar...~Oh sohne maan de maalika...rok rakh zubaan dee talvaar...~Oh, naame nahooan diya paalka...dil jaaliya de nasoor na ucher...kal tu vee kohri ho sakne...~Yaar dost vee nahi aunhe nehar...~Oh sohne husan de rahiya...dil toran da raah naa apnaa...~ Aakhar taan budaapa aake rehana...haankaar da naa paan charaa...~Oh chardi jawani de mahiya...saathi banaa, saare na dushman...~Larna te laar inquliab layi...Naa yaad tera duniya vaale rakhan. .............BURA JO DEKHAN MAIN CHALA...BURA NAA MILLIYA KOI...~JO MUNN KHOJA APNAA...TO MUJHSE BURAA NAA MUJHSE BURAA NA KOI...Kabir :-)


Name: Jaswal - February 10, 2002
E-mail: rajputpunjabi@yahoo.com
Location: San Jose, CA     USA
Comments:   I apologize if I was a bit harsh, but I believe I had every reason to be. I was under the impression that this site's purpose was to unite punjabis. Statements such as "pakistani punjabis speak better than sikhs" don't exactly promote that. Punjabi is punjabi regardless of how it is spoken, where it's spoken, or who speaks it. It's sad to to read that even bhatti paji wrote "West Punjabis do speak a very sweet Punjabi indeed" Sweetness does not mean better. I can sit here and name a few poisons that are very sweet, but deadly. So, is sweetness really "better?" I think not!! It's just different from sour, harsh, and whatever other flavors there are. And, Dheensa bro, you keep makin' politically incorrect statements. I suggest you don't try to run for a public office or you'd fall down very hard :-) What does the the following mean?

At an office where I worked it was my "Uncle Ji" who taught me the correct structure.

I didn't know that there was such a thing as "incorrect" punjabi. Written language usually differs from what people speak in daily life, but that doesn't mean there're things such as correct and incorrect. Here in the states, we normally use words such as ain't, gonna, wanna, and so forth. They are not incorrect, but informal. So, it's not correct or incorrect, but it is formal and informal. I was reading something very interesting the other day and the writing said something like punjabi is the language of common man. There're no pretenses in it, no formality. It treats the rich and poor the same. That's what punjabi is. It doesn't have to be sweet, but it IS how you speak it. Sweetness would make it hindi/urdu, a language used in the courts for manipulative purposes. So, your definition of correctness, sir, is "hindizing" my punjabi. Punjabis speak what their mothers teach them; they speak what their childhood friends teach them. To say that there exists an "incorrect punjabi," is the same as sayin' punjabi is the language of illiterate or it is the language of the "low." For the record, don't make these better/worse comments infront of a punjabi in real life 'cause the punjabis i know, jatt or rajput, will teach you a real good lesson =)

Now about me being a Rajput. I call myself a Rajput not because I am racist or because that's my name, but because that's who I am. I am a Rajput. I am proud of my heritage. I'd be a racist man if I said I am better which I didn't. It's NOT racist to cherish your heritage and culture, but it is being proud of who you are. If I made the statements you did, then I'd be racist. I don't remember sayin' anything about who is superior or who is not. If I did, then please cite the proof otherwise don't sit there and try to judge me. If I am racist for callin' myself a Rajput, then, you are all racist for calling yourselves punjabis. Pride and racism are two separate things, atleast in my case. Judge me by what I said, not by my name. And, you asked "what the hell's all that(being a rajput) about?" It's about having a heritage that spans thousands of years. It's about the accomplishments of your ancestors, yours, and your future generations'. Go read about Dulla Bhatti, Prithavi Raj Chauhan, Banda Bahadur, and countless others. Once you're done readin' all that, then come ask me what "it's" all about. My ancestors are an inspiration to me; they give me a standard to live up to. Every morning I wake up, I swear by Dulla Bhatti's name to better myself. I am not racist, I am proud.

This is my last response to your unthoughtful words. A man who uses ad-hominem is not worthy of a discussion. I don't care about where you come from or where your pind is, or whether you're a jatt or a chamar. My criticism was based solely on your words, not your caste, religion, or anything else, but it seems as if that's all you have your in arsenals: personal attacks. And, dude, it's not "Papa" farid, or "Papa" bulleh shah; the word is BABA. Obviously, your "Uncle Ji," failed at teaching you the "correct" use of punjabi...LOL!...alright, I don't mean it, the last sentence was just sarcasm.

For rest of the punjabis, I apologize again if I offended anybody, but people who create divisions by callin' a faction better don't deserve any respect in my book.

LONG LIVE PUNJAB AND ITS PEOPLE


Name: DullaBhatti - February 10, 2002
E-mail: dulalbhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   Dheensa might have used the politicaly incorrect expression of "better" but West Punjabis do speak a very sweet Punjabi indeed...Most ThaiTh punjabi spoken from any part of Punjab is a music to my ears.


Name: DullaBhatti - February 10, 2002
E-mail: DullaBhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   If language is indeed all that dynamic then it makes it even more prone to political manipulation, state control, media control,school system etc that can influence it during its dynamism. That unparh auntie who is perfect in Punjabi language does not have same effect on the dynamics of the language as say a TV producer or a political educational figure who decides what will be taught in schools. If that is the case then you are being very unfair to the 70% of the illiterates because you are choosing a language that you know and they don't, giving them an un-even field. Fahim, some of your comments make me laugh and at the same time mera ander pittda ay. It is amazing how language issue was tried to divert towards removal of feaudlism etc..bhai Most of the feudals prefer urdu/english than Punjabi. giving people the right to their mother language is very anti-feudal...by being anti-mother language you are being very feudal.


Name: Hardeep Dheensa - February 10, 2002
E-mail: Jullandhur@aol.com
Comments:   Dear Rajput. Kiddah. I haven't a clue about the formatting, so forgive the presentation of my comment. You call me a racist, I am not the one with my caste as my name "Rajput".... what the hell's all that about? Unless that's your real name, then I'm sorry. You say I am racist to the Hindi/Urduized Panjabi.... yes maybe I am. You say I'm racist to "Pindu Lok" maybe I haven't mentioned it but my family back home come from Jalandhar and by professions we are farmers (Jatts), my people and area are considered very backward and "rough speaking"..... SO? I love that, I will speak to my Papa Ji in this "rough Jalandhari accent".... I have nothing against it. You say I am prejuidiced towards different "Dialects" of Panjabi. Pre-Partition my family came from Lyallpur (Faislabad) and I am myself pickied up most of the Panjabi I know from Panjabi Muslim's. At an office where I worked it was my "Uncle Ji" who taught me the correct structure, use of words in PANJABI not Lahori Panjabi, Doabi Panjabi, Muslim Panjabi or Sikh Panjabi just the Panjabi language. For that reason I should not read the Doharas, Sloaks, Kafis etc. of the likes of Papa Farid Ji, Papa Bulleh Shah Ji because they might use the "Multani" dialect? or because they use a word like "Nuqta" not spoken by the "Sikhs"...... LOL! Like I said I have learnt Panjabi from Panjabi Sikhs, Panjabi Muslims and even Kashmiri's who speak Panjabi! Regarding the whole "Sikh" issue. It's a commonly understand theme that "Panjab and Panjabi" are linked to the Sikhs. This is completley wrong thus I made the point "they speak it better than the Sikhs" as a pun. Meaning this is the way it should be, everyone regardless of RELIGION should speak there "Mother tongue". If I have offended you in anyway, it wasn't my intention. To Bali Ji: My name is Hardeep. I wish I had the resources to start my own station but alas I haven't. In regards to the radio stations. I haven't come across any Panjabi radio stations. But on the T.V. you get stuff like "LASHKARA" but again this is more "Sikh-orienated" and not really a "Panjabi" station. However they do have things like "Reading of the Holy Quran" at the the time of "Fajr" (Islamic Morning Prayer) etc. Thanks.


Name: Rajput - February 10, 2002
E-mail: rajputpunjabi@yahoo.com
Location: San Jose, CA     USA
Comments:   Dheensa: You made the following remarkes:

In regards to Sameer's comments about Panjabi. What I've seen in regards to the Pakistani Panjabis is many of the ones I know speak PANJABI at home (and in PUBLIC) and often speak it better than any of the "Sikhs".

What exactly does it mean to speak better Punjabi? It has different dialects, but it is Punjabi nevertheless. Different dialects are neither better nor worse, they're just that DIFFERENT. What's bad is if people start using hindu/urdu words in Punjabi. It's bad in the sense that it's not pure anymore, but I'm not sure what you mean by "better." Are you suggesting that Punjabi spoken in certain areas of Punjab is better than others? Religion has very little to do with how a person speaks. I'm not familiar with Muslim Punjabis that much, but I can tell you that Hindus and Sikhs speak the same in doaba and when you go to the amritsar area, the language as a whole sort of changes. The change is not because of religion, but it is because it's just a different dialect. Let me tell what's not better: people like you assigning scores of goodness to how a person speaks. Now, that's not "better." Next thing you're going to say is that "pendu" punjabi is not as good as punjabi spoken by the "educated." You're not very different from people who claim that Punjabi is the language of the anpar folks. So, if you can't utter words of wisdom, well, then KEEP YOUR RACIST MOUTH SHUT. You should take some geology classes and, perhaps, you'll learn how species develop and develop differently from another because of the natural barriers. You can't expect the Punjabis from jalandhar and Lahore to speak 100% the same because of the distance that is between them... On a different note, why do you have quotes about the word Sikhs? Are you questioning the identity of the Sikhs? Please do clarify because I don't want to assume anything here...


Name: Bali. K Deol - February 10, 2002
E-mail: swaraj@shaw.ca
Comments:   DhinsaJi: By the way, what is your first name, it seems rude to refer the way I am. Since you brought up the black issue. I'll tell you a interesting story. One day, as I was quietly (ok maybe not so quietly) doing the show, a listener called up). He said if you don't mind I would like to ask you a few questions, answer if you like. I assured him I had a couple of minutes. He proceeded to ask me if I had ever been to the Punjab, I answered yes, he then asked when, I told him '91', he then asked how old I was then, ( I told him, but I won't advertise it here). After gauging all this info, he said the reason I'm asking all this is because I feel that you have a misconception about the Punjab. He advised me that I thought it was all so perfect back there, and by perfect he meant that the culture had not been diluted. He told me how advanced it was, we have MTV, and so forth. I heard him out and then I assured him I was well aware of this situation. My show was not meant to be a direct representation of Punjab today, but a celebration of the Punjab throughout her history. I was compelled to ask him, why on earth he thought that simply because the Punjab has become westernized it is now not in his words 'backwards' anymore. I fail to see how adopting Western culture and abandoning our own great values and traditions makes us so advanced. I certainly do not wish to one day become a gori mem in all ways except appearance, appearance either I may add. All those that think Punjabi girls are the most beautiful in the world people say 'Oye hoye'. Its true about the British music scene, usually out of ten albums I find maybe a couple of tracks to play, although recently certain artists are getting their act together. I'm not totally against remixes, in the second and third generations, initially they serve a purpose. I remember when the bhangra revolution hit in England, it was my first taste of Punjabi music, it got me hooked where dad's Manak couldn't. Starting there, today I listen to everything from Sufi, qawal, to old skool folk, Manak from 40 years back, and almost everything in between. Those initial bands had pretty meaningless songs. Every one was aa goriye, mere naal nach sohniye.. (ouch), but they worked as a starting point. Today when so many 'apne' kids have a seriously confused identity issue, a starting point is much needed. Vancouver has a huge population of recently arrived Punjabis' in the youth category, and you would not believe it, often within a year or so, they have acquired the Puff Daddy lingo. I'm at a loss to understand how. Perhaps, you should start a similar show in the UK, God knows they need something better. I heard about a station called PunjabRadio, they broadcast via sattelite, and are exclusively Punjabi, with some English. I hear the music they play is really good.


Name: ijazali - February 10, 2002
E-mail: dildil@pakistani.com
Location: lahore, punjab     pkistan
Comments:   My friend tell me this site and i will checked this site i found it very good and historical site of the punjabi world i like it very much and enjoy it.


Name: Dr.Sarfraz Khan - February 10, 2002
E-mail: drsarfrazlim@hotmail.com
Location: Pakistan, punjab     pakistan
Comments:   this site is very good,i apriciate your site.i like very much this site.i seen daliy this site.


Name: suman - February 10, 2002
E-mail: skashy@yahoo.com
Comments:   safir. You must have done something, but this morning I was able to hear Batalvi recite his poetry. What a great delight and privilige. It is your persistant search that has unearthed all these gems in the audio section. Thank you very much indeed. I have to rush back to hear more!


Name: Bushra Khan - February 10, 2002
E-mail: khanbushra@hotmail.com
Location: New York, NY     USA
Comments:   Mahmud Fahim: Nothing like waking up in New York on a fine morning and reading on APNA board your confession that I am right. Now about the “but” part. My dear, I say that illiteracy, industrialization, Feudal system and language are interrelated issues. You talk about illiteracy and I claim that it is the Urdu education system which is root cause of illiteracy in West Punjab. I have a friend who’s mother came here last year. She is an old women, according to your standards a chitti unparh. When I started reading heer a few months ago I asked her the meanings of a few difficult words and was amazed that she could explain the meanings so good. I call her up whenever I have difficulty understanding any Punjabi word and most of the times she know the proper meanings and usage. When I was struggling with the gorakhdhanda of Ghalib and Iqbal’s Urdu poetry in school, I heard this word “Ahl-e-Zubaan” and thought that they must be great scholars of Urdu language. Then I learned that these Ahl-e-Zubaan are just common people who’s mother tongue is Urdu and everyone learns from them the proper use of Urdu. I claim that this aunt of mine is not chitti unparh, she is an Ahl-e-Zubaan. My nani was a better Ahl-e-Zubaan, she had a Punjabi saying or muhawara for everything. Now my dear, we have converted all these Ahl-e-zubaan into illiterate people. We gave them the choice of either learning a foreign language or to become illiterate. They not only have to learn how to recognize alphabets but learn a foreign language and accent at the same time. If all they have to do is learn to read Punjabi, a language in which they are already Ahl-e-Zubaan, then only have to learn alphabets. if not Ghalib but Heer was in my tenth class course, my Nani could have helped me understand that far better than my teacher. If you are concerned with illiteracy in Pakistan, change the Urdu system to Punjabi system and then it will be much easy to have adult learning classes etc. to end illetarcy. Now, before you can do something about Feudal system, you must empower people. Changing the urdu System into Punjabi System will empower people because they will participate fully in state business, courts, assembalies, government offices, etc. Right now, the Urdu system has created an inferiority complex for a whole nation. We have made these Ahl-e-Zubaan into Jahil, illiterate, not having the skill to participae in state business. Lastly, you can’t have industrial development if your people are not educated and empowered. Language problem is a very basic problem. Why make it so difficult for common people by forcing them to do all state business, education in a foreign language? Think about this tonight and when I wake up tomorrow, another “you are right” without any ‘but’ will be good.


Name: H. Dheensa - February 10, 2002
E-mail: Jullandhur@aol.com
Comments:   Kiddah. Bali: Um the song as the melody has "Mera Loung Gawacha". The lyrics are "Ah mundya, vi boli pah mundiya, Ah mundya vi boli pah mundiya, tenu nach ke vekhama, nach, nach ke vekhama........." Thanks for the info. as well. I think it's great what you are trying to do on your radio programme. I think Panjabi (Bhangra) music has gone down the drain recently with nothing particulary brillant. It's become to "Black". The lyrics are becoming more vulgar and meaningless. The beat is basically "GARAGE" with some black guy shouting halfway through it. If you've ever heard "Farmane" by Kuldip Manak, you'll know what I mean. The song is not so bad. But the ending is funny a black guy "Respect the vibe, the folk vibe people like Kuldip Manak keeping it alive.........." What the hell would some Kala know about Panjabi folk music!! I dunno if this is just England, but from my time in Canada- the kids are even more "kale wannabes" than England. Also in India the Panjab is being taken over by the "MTV Culture" I urge anyone whose intrested to follow this link: http://www.bhangra.org/article.php?sid=108&mode=thread&order=0 Farini: Thanks for your comments. I never really thought of it as a MUSLIM VS. KAFIR issue. Thanks.


Name: Mahmud Fahim - February 10, 2002
E-mail: agsmz@yahoo.com
Location: Vienna, VA     USA
Comments:   Dear Bushra Khan: You are right, but in the present world the nations which are using their languages in all spheres of life are LITERATE. Unfortunately, the literacy rate in Punjab is so low i-e less than 30%. In this 30% we include the people who can only just write their name. We have to enhance it. In the other provinces, where we are seeing their languages in education system and declaring them our models have even worst rate of literacy. So Education, Industrialization and Breaking down of Fuedal system are the most important issues.


Name: Bushra Khan - February 09, 2002
E-mail: khanbushra@hotmail.com
Location: New York, NY     USA
Comments:   Fahim Mahmud: I am reading this discussion for long time. your commenst are the most dumbest I have read.. I have now learned what is going on with Punjabi in Pakisan. I had seen what Saeed Farani writes about. Now I know that Urdu school system made my mind as numb as your’s still is. Dynamic process, my foot. tell me: Never teach Punjabis how to read and write Punjabi, bombard them with Urdu from all sides, TV, newspapers, radio, offices, schools, colleges, universities, courts, assemblies. Then you calmly tell Punjabi’s not to worry, nothing will happen to Punjabi. It is a dynamic process. What dynamic process? Are you out of your mind or have some internal motive to defend Urdu domination on Punjabi? Persian was imposed on all other Indian languages. Those rulers are gone and that time in the history has passed. Now the people of Pakistan who are mostly Punjbai’s are supposed to be free. Why should they tolerate Urdu imposed on them? Why not impose the peoples languages? Would you mind if in Punjab’s schools, TV, newspapers, radio, offices, colleges, universities, courts, assemblies, everywhere Punjabi is imposed? This will be no harm to Urdu by your theory of dynamic process. So why don’t you come out openly in imposing Punjabi on Urdu? What is wrong in that? Why Punjabi has to survive under Urdu? Why? What is so great about Urdu that we kick Punjabi out of all public institutions? And then be happy that no problem nothing will happen to Punjabi it is used to living under foreign languages like Persian. Punjabian dee koi wailney wich banh aye e ke Punjabi ne kise na kise foreign zuban de haithan lag ke e rehna a?


Name: Mahmud Fahim - February 09, 2002
E-mail: agsmz@yahoo.com
Location: Vienna, VA     USA
Comments:   Suman: I agree with you. No one can eliminate or impose a language on the people. There are many other factors on which this phenomenon depends. It is a very DYNAMIC process and language itself is a dynamic thing. Both in India and Pakistan, the educated punjabi families are speaking mostly Hindi and Urdu as a second language at their homes. It doesn't mean that it harms Punjabi. Just like as Persian didn't harm Punjabi in more than 500 years, I don't think that Urdu can affect Punjabi. On the other hand, we do affect Urdu by introducing many punjabi words in Hindi and Urdu. I again emphasize that it is a very dynamic process. We have many other serious issues for the sake of real development of Punjab and we have to think about them. Regards


Name: Bali K Deol - February 09, 2002
E-mail: swaraj@shaw.ca
Comments:   Dhinsa: I'm not sure which other song you mean, what are the lyrics of the body of the song. Hema Sharma, still quite young has released tracks on Tigerstyles new album, as well on the album by Pamma, 'Chhattri di chaan', and a couple of other albums, she is due to put out a solo album in the works. Hema Sharma I believe is in England, and Gunjan, not sure, either the States or England. I'm not related to Sonia Deol, I've been away from the UK for six years now, so I don't even know of her. My focus on my show is Punjabi, to promote, Punjabiat at every opportunity, to rekindle the love in as many as possible. I speak English too, because as you know, at least here in Canada so many apne kids have a real limited understanding of Punjabi. Sach dassan, taan Mazaa taan Punjabi vich gal karke hee aunda. I agree with you on completely with the comment that most people think Punjabi programs are Sikh programs. One of the reasons for this is, that most of them tend to ignore music, and culture in West Punjab. I aim to include, but I see that the 5- 24 hour so called Punjabi stations here really ignore West Punjab completely. You know that they say quality over quantity, one of my listeners said yesterday, that jiven tumbi dee ik taar ne bas karaatee sau sau taaran dee, vaise hee towade ik ghente ne bas karaatee chaubee ghentiyaN di. :-) That makes me happy, because it means that the community is open to becoming more aware of Punjabiat as a whole, not exclusively in terms of East or West.


Name: Saeed Farani - February 09, 2002
E-mail: saeedfarani@hotmail.com
Location: Rawalpindi, Punjab     Pakistan
Comments:   Dear H. Dheensa You asked about Pakistani punjabies' punjabiat. Let me tell you my observation. Though there are many good comments on this topic by Sameer jee. Even then let me share my first hand observations. I belong to a pure Punjabi family migrated from Fateh GaRh ChooRyiaN, Teh. Batala, Gurdarpur. My both the parents' sides are from the same town. They came to Narrowal. My place of birth is also Narrowal. Though my parents are living in Jhelum. (Father is at very poor and critical condition after the death of his two grandchildren and seriously wounded son in Saudi Arabia.) My father was ( he is still alive but we don't know when his soul will depart because doctors even in the CMH, Jhelum, are helpless.) He was used to read laudly the famous Punjabi book "saiful malook" poetic dastan written by Mian Mohammad Bakhkhash of KhaRi Sharif, Mirpur, Azad Kashmir. I remember my very early childhood when he was reciting Quran after early morning Namaz (salat) and then he was reciting one or two pages of Saiful Malook. It is very interesting that I was able to understand the meanings of Punjabi poetry Saiful Malook but I was absolutly unable to understand Quran which was in alien language for me. It was the time 1957 to 1973. Then I just left my home and went to Karachi. It is the story which I mentioned earlier. I travelled a lot in Pakistan. I found one thing very common that Punjabi muslimans are either reluctant to call themselves punajbies or they simply hate and think it is dangerous for the unity of the country to call themselvse as Punjabi. In the cites and towns and the areas where our PTV is attacking people are forcing their kids to speak in Urdu. If you argue with them then they say, "our kids have to go to school where they are taught in urdu. if you speak with them in punjabi, then the teachers and other kids make joke of them. this language is considered and named the following titles in pakistan, it is the language of those who are against nazriya e pakistan. it is the language of sikhs ( they mean kafirs), so one should not speak it. it is the language of separatists so we should not encourage them. then all the focus is on urdu and english. mostly on urdu, where as punjabi is said as a language od chooRaas, (shudras). it is considered as gahl. Leave the punjabi music, these are the songs which are hit by illiterate public mostly and if the upper class or the middle class or the lower middle class also listen these songs then these are just for the rich and heated music and loud taste of the language. so they enjoy sometime they don't understand the meanings. so as the singers sing in punjabi but they talk in urdu. urdu walas and pro urdu punjabis are not ready to give any place to punjabi. they claim that if punjabi will survive then it must stay under urdu ( urdu de thaley lag ke zinda rehvey.) then its dialects are promoted as different languages as two main dialects are shown and presented as separate languages ig saraiki and pothwari. these days there are many discussion on these issue in lahore. so punjab's majority is hated by the minorities so ehdey ToTey karn dee sazash ho rai ey. there are very few chances of its survival. we have to fight a lot. though often i agree with sameer but i doubt its survival. because until and unless, we don't have education in punjabi and a separte full fledged TV channel of punjabi, specially the language which could not project religions'superioties but just humanity then there are chances of its survival otherwise the Qibla of Punjabi muslims is far away from punjab in saudi arabia, iraq and iran so they always keeep their face toward those place and they don't get a chance to look inside and down on the dharat. now the cafe is closing so if you have some particular questions write please.


Name: suman - February 09, 2002
E-mail: skashy@yahoo.com
Comments:   The last issue of national geographic has a breakdown of the linguistic profile of 'the stans'. Pakistan, according to this report, has a 58% punjabi(and its variants)speaking population. The rest are sindhi, pushtu etc. You would suppose then, that punjabi would be the dominant language there. But, at least according to what I read on this website, it is not and there are a variety of suggestions put forward on how to increase its usage and popularity.

My theory - dissenting views cheerfully accepted - is that no organization can plan or successfully urge the use of a language. Language grows out of the usage of people - and whether or not it is used, is dependent upon the language's usefulness in personal and working life. If punjabis do not speak and read punjabi, it is because they have decided (could be any number of reasons - financial, laziness, social, political) that they are better of with something else. It is a balancing act all the time.

There are a number of examples of governmental organizations trying to impose a language on the people - the French trying to preserve the 'purity' of french (did not succeed), India attempting to urge the use of hindi as a national language (did not succeed tho bollywood did create a common idiom!).


Name: H. Dheensa - February 09, 2002
E-mail: Jullandhur@aol.com
Comments:   Kiddah. In regards to Sameer's comments about Panjabi. What I've seen in regards to the Pakistani Panjabis is many of the ones I know speak PANJABI at home (and in PUBLIC) and often speak it better than any of the "Sikhs". Not in a racist comment many Pakistani familys are TRADITONAL (even to English culture) of the "Father works, whilst Mother stays at home" thus the Pakistani Panjabi's have a better "access" to the Panjabi language. Then they will learn URDU at the Madrassa's, building on the Panjabi they learn at Home (One thing I've also noticed- They will also learn URDU also from a member of the FAMILY- "Uba jan Umi jan Nana jan Nani Ji). Most of the Panjabi Pakistanis that I know are familar and happy to be Panjabi Pakistanis. I also know a few who hold the "Hum Musalman hei, Hum Urdu bolte hei........" "Urdu hei Mitha Zabian, Panjabi hei Pind ka Zabian", "Panjabi is a good language for Swearing" (Je tum galla kudna, Panjabi hei sabh se achha zabian etc.) Finally I have personally noticed that the Pakistani Panjabi's with "roots" in "East Panjab" (Pre-Parition) are prouder Panjabis. They tend to get on with Sikhs better (and the Sikhs with them), speak Panjabi better, know more of the Panjabi culture. Yet still they keep there Iman intact, by being "Panjabi's", it does not make them lesser Islamic. I dunno the reason for this. I think hailing from the "Majhi and Doabi" regions of Panjab, makes people more feel more Panjabi (These being the HUB of both East and West). This is the same for those whose familys live in the PIND'S (where the Panjabi culture is still intact) and the NAGAR LOK who are detached and strive for a WESTERN CULTURE or NON-PANJABI CULTURE (I.E. English and Urdu). This also applies to the CHANDIGARH LOK of INDIA. This is just my obversation. Any Pakistani Panjabi's on the forum might be able give a better analysis. Thanks.


Name: H. Dheensa - February 09, 2002
E-mail: Jullandhur@aol.com
Comments:   Kiddah. Woah, 14 years old. The song I'm talking about is PMC vs. Bally Sagoo (for some reason it's also known as PMC vs. Bally Jagpal) . The song "GHALLA GORIAN" also by PMC also starts of with the "Mera Nak Vich nathani......... but it is a different song. Bali you talked about the latest stuff of Hema Shamra (or Sarbjit) do you where I can get some new stuff of her's? Gunjan.... what an un-common name. Are these girls from England or India? P.S. To Bali.... just out of curiosity your not related to Sonia Deol of the BBC Asian Network? (Another radio presenter) I think it's great that you run a PANJABI radio station. They do have them in England, but they're are mainly serving the "Asian Community", but they are mainly just a mix of Hindi/Urdu and English with dialects thrown in like Gujarati, Panjabi, Mirpuri etc. I find this stupid as Panjabi is the language of many of the "Asian" people in the Midlands. Even though apart from the English, many are almost "Divided at that". I.E. The Panjabi programme is basically a "Sikh programme", all the presenters are SIKH, the LISTENERS (well the ones who call in are SIKH) etc. as for the URDU programme as well. Thanks.


Name: Sameer - February 09, 2002
E-mail: jbsameer@yahoo.com
Comments:   DullaBhatti: It is nothing short of rapturous to have a poem written to me. Thanks a lot. Believe me the admiration is mutual. You actually know me more than any other person from other site, we interact. Either I am very fortunate or something legendary among Punjabis that whenever I have struck bond with Punjabis on the basis of being on the same wavelength regarding Punjabiat, it is sheer joy, satisfaction and even beneficial. Not even once have I regreted for striking a friendship on this basis with any Muslim, Sikh and Hindu alike. Overall this has been much more pleasing and rewarding than friendliness based on religious, nationality, profession, relatives, neighbors and so on. I wish so much to see all Punjabis having a special feeling towards other punjabis on the basis of language, culture, traditions, festivals - (Punjabiat) - and then compare their dealings on this basis with any other bais. I guaretee you that their experience will be no different than mine.

I will not even consider the possibility of Punjabi in the danger of extinction. The undercurrents I feel tell me of whole different, upward mobility. I see it unstopable trend, even in Pakistani Punjab taking place and rulers and ideology based supression are nothing but sandwalling. I am anxious because I like to contribute to expedite it. Just 15-20 years ago, it was Lata and Asha Singing in Punjabi movies and now Sukhwinder, Narula and Manpreet singing in Hindi movies. Whatever is one's opinion about Bally Sagoo, he has expedited the process using his skills in music. 15-20 years ago, there was no Punabi World Congress, no APNA, Zia Islamization, Sikhs under supression, Diaspora small and indifferent. And now just look around NY, NJ gas stations, real estate, Punjabi music domination, voices for Punjabi Language and so on. NO other south Asian culture has achieved anything closer to Punjabis during the last 20 years. Once you break off from the pack with a higher slope (mathematical), the writing are on the wall. Sure, there will be hurdles, temporary setbacks and stupidites along the way but the fact is that Punajbis have shot up like a lone star. The credit goes only and only to hard working Punjabis. DullaBhatti, it is human nature to see the fruits of their eforts in their lifetimes. That makes us anxious and motivates to expedite the process.

The momentum is created and once it starts snowballing in Pakistan, nothing can stop it. Believe me we aint seeing nothing yet. What you see and hear (against Punajbiat in Pakistan) is too flaky, manufactured and maintained by Mullah-military-bureaucracy axis in the name of ideology is inefficient, high cost-no reward and expensive enterprise that is unsustainable for an extended period. We have witnessed its ramifications recently and perhaps more to come. The future of Pakistan lies with the people of Pakistan which, in turn, lies with their affiliations that they can identify easily. The simplest way to identify is through local culture and society. Punjabiat for Punjabis is the natural way. As Punjabis succeed, so will Punjabiat. Let us be foot soldiers in this march towards success.

Despite all the efforts, Urdu has started losing out to English and no longer a competition to Punjabi. In the future, Urdu will remain as more like Sanskrit of Muslims whereas ligua franca will be their native languages.


Name: Bali K Deol - February 09, 2002
E-mail: swaraj@shaw.ca
Comments:   Dullabhatti Ji, dil dee gal kargaye tusi. Chaa gaye ji, towade vargeyaaN diyan gallaN sunke haunsla vad jaanda!


Name: DullaBhatti - February 09, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   Rammah ji, I memorised that song when I was in high school...and it is first time someone has really given it an interpretation that matches shiv's stature. Great interpretation.

Talking about personal stories. My father goes out every morning and goes to either a senior center, library or some other public place in the area. Today when he was getting out of the senior center a guy in his 60's called him from back.."sardar ji ki gall naraaz ho, kolloN di langh challe O?"...he turned back and he told me he knew it instantly it was someone from Lahore. This senior center is attended by lot of Indians but hardly any pakistani elders. So they met very warmly and started talking about places they knew on either side...My father has a good memory of area between lahore and amritsar and when the guy told him he has visited the villages of Burki an Kohri, that made an instant connection as that is my father's naanka pinDs and he has played in the streets there as a kid. They talked for long time and then topic came to language. At some point chaudhary sahib said that true that Punjabi is not being given respect and its place by the Govt and all paRhe likhe lok speak urdu in pakistan, but still masses speak the language and people are proud to be Punjabis. I think it is good to be proud to be Punjabis but that does not mean much if you are not proud of your language and culture. I have heard this argument before too that language is not dying as people in villages still speak it. I think that is a misconception and needs to be cleared in everyones mind. Those days are long gone when languages survived because people spoke them and they did not know any other language. In this century any language that does not have governmental patronage and is not spoken/written/used in the media will not survive the year 2101. Thats where APNA, Punjab society, writers forums, artists and media becomes very important. LET EVERYONE KNOW THAT THIS CENTURY IS GOING TO DETERMINE WHETHER PUNJABI IS GOING TO LIVE OR NOT. Any Punjabi who lives or will live in this century owes something to our ancestors, our mothers, our land and every pir paighambar, sufi and lover who have walked over the land of five rivers.


Name: Dr. Javed Zaki - February 09, 2002
E-mail: Zakimoha@msu.edu
Comments:   Bali ji! Thanks a lot. Recently I was invited to recite my panjabi poetry in a get-together at the local Gurdawara. I recited a poem to pay my homage to Baba guru Nanak Ji.

Baba Ji Guru Nanak De Hazoor Aqeedat Naal
Sach Nanak ik Kartar
Jad chahya akhhiaaN meet liaaN
Te kar liaa Rab didaar
Sach Nanak ik Kartar

AsaaN chaah sachche sarkar di e
Koi parvah neiN ghar bar di e
JinhooN moh maaya sansaar di e
Oh kis ja da sardar
Sach Nanak ik kartar

AsaaN sohne de sang la-yaan ne
SanooN Nanak rashmaaN bhaN-yaaN ne
Ik jag nooN sam-jhaaN Aa-yaaN ne
Oh vasda Dhaar cho-dhaar
Sach Nanak ik kartar

MeiN heeran aaN Rab Ranjhan di
Te goli apne saajan di
Eh arz sono ik wanjhan di
Saada kar deu beRa paar
Sach Nanak ik kartar

Har mann vich dera nanak da
Sab chaar chofera Nanak da
Jugg saanjh savera Nanak da
Oh chan chaanan parkaar
Sach Nanak ik Kartar


Name: Saeed Farani - February 08, 2002
E-mail: saeedfarani@hotmail.com
Comments:   Ms. Zehra, thanks. u stopped writing me the horrible titles of Nawabs like Mohatarmi and Makarmi. I like sidhe sadey lok. One beautiful poetic thought for you. ChiTTi chadar la chchaD kuRyey, pehn faqiraaN loee ChiTTi chadar daG lageysi, loee daG na koee. Best wishes. The next folk story I will write near WaDDi (WaDhi also) eid.


Name: Safir Rammah - February 08, 2002
E-mail: rammah@apnaorg.com
Location: Fairfax, Va     USA
Comments:   As they say, when it rains, it pours. I have been looking for Shiv’s poetry narrations recorded in his own voice for a long time. A couple of days ago, Bali Jee promised me to send some of Shiv’s recordings. While still dreaming about the arrival of Bali Jee’s gift, I learned during a phone conversation with Ashraf Mukhlis in London that he has the recordings of three of Shiv’s poems in his own voice. He was kind enough to send them to me and not only I finally brought Shiv to my home, I have also put him on APNA web.

Listening to the first poem “Sikher Dopeher Sir Te”, if for a moment we assume that Shiv is not talking about himself as a poet, but rather as the personification of Punjabi language, the poem can be read as the sad story of Punjabi in West Punjab. It is all there - beginning with the opening lines “Sikher Dopeher Sir Te, Mera Dhal Chalia Parchanwan” to “Main Vi Keha Rukh Chandra, Jihnoon Kha Gaiyan Ohdiyan Chanwan” and then all the way to the last band ‘Lokan Mere Geet Sun Lai, Mera Dukh Te Kise Wi Na Jania – Lokan Mere Sees Chum Laye, Per MukhRa Kise Wi Na Jania – Aj Es MukhRe Ton, Pia Apna Aap Lukawna.”

I will, of course, keep on dreaming about more of Shiv, coming my way from Vancouver.


Name: Bali K Deol - February 08, 2002
E-mail: swaraj@shaw.ca
Comments:   The version he is talking about, is the song, gallan goorian karoongee tere naal ve(album-legalised), she sings mere nath vich nathni as a sher first. I am 100% sure it is Hema Sharma, and I have heard a fair ammount of her most recent efforts, she is truly blessed with a very soulful voice. Nusrat never comprised his classical training, or the raag's but even he worked with people such as Peter Gabriel for whom he had much respect. (Read Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan- A living legend, great book. He wasn't against a little experimentation. I agree with you that there are too many people that have next to zero talent, and have the audacity to think they can add a little 'oomph' to Nusrats voice. Very sadly mistaken, they usually crucify it. I have a fairly extensive Nusrat collection, and sometimes with new music, well produced tracks, frame his superb voice even better than the original. There is an album called Nusrat "Redefined'. A song on that album called Agg Ishq Di' has been so well produced, its an amazing combination. Remixes for the most part,are created by people that have no knowledge for music, by ego inflated DJ's. Sometimes though there are people with a genuine love and respect for music, and offer a humble effort at trying to make an amazing track more rare. Its these people that introduce Punjabi music to a at least two generations who for the most part are simply unaware or not interested. That first taste is like strawberry ice cream - you don't know what its like till you've tried it, and once you do you can't get enough. Once they've tried the basic, then they'll be more inclined to experiment with the different flavours within. :-) Its very important that we continue to employ all efforts to bring those generations towards Punjabiat, because its obviously in their hands the future of Punjabiat lies, at least abroad. Appan taan bol bool ke chalde banaana!


Name: DullaBhatti - February 08, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   Bali, I missed the show again today:(. Thanks.
I thought that Long Gawaacha song (besides others) was sung by Sarbjit(or Sarvjit) that particular version you are talking about.... and that Nakk Wich Nath na PayeO...sounds Sarvjit also. What is bad about this remix culture is they don't always acknowledge the original artists. Other day I downloaded a Remix of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan...some one mixed his music on NFAK's voice...I think that was even offensive for someone with an electronic synthesizer to think that they can give a better music to NFAK's quwalli.


Name: Bali K Deol - February 08, 2002
E-mail: swaraj@shaw.ca
Comments:   Hi, she is certainly Hema Sharma, who was 14 years old when she sang that song. One more reason its so outstanding. As for 'Nahion Dil lagda' that one is by Gunjan, another girl with a very sweet voice.


Name: H. Dheensa - February 08, 2002
E-mail: Jullandhur@aol.com
Comments:   Bali: 14 years old, I'm sure she SINGS the whole song. Surely a 14 year didn't sing it. She sounds like the one who sang "Mera Loung Gawacha" and that was done some years ago (I not sure when PMC vs. Bally Sagoo was done or Mera Loung Gawacha"). Also anyone know who sang "Naiyon Dil Lagda", another Bally Sagoo song? Out of discussion does anyone agree that PANJABI FEMALE VOCALISTS have amongst the best (Sweetest) voices in ASIA? Thanks.


Name: H. Dheensa - February 08, 2002
E-mail: Jullandhur@aol.com
Comments:   Bali: 14 years old? I thought she SANG the whole song as well... surely it's not a 14 year old singing the song? Also she sounds the one who sang


Name: Bali K. Deol - February 08, 2002
E-mail: swaraj@shaw.ca
Comments:   Dullabhatti and Zaki sahib, I recited the pieces both of you put up yesterday on todays show. I made the effort to be partcularly soft and dramatic where appropriate, and I thought you would both like to know, that I recieved a flood of calls on both pieces offering compliments to the writers. :-)


Name: DullaBhatti - February 08, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Location: San Jose, CA     USA
Comments:   Zaki sahib, very good geet. I particularly liked
"KachiaaN galiaaN dhooR udendi
Rooh meri nooN mast karendi
Luddi nachdi jhammar paindi"


Name: Zahra - February 08, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Saeed Farani: What was the sense of the joke? Also, this is one thing I cannot stand, silly jokes in any language. Many times the jokes show the person's caliber. To each their own anyway.


Name: Zahra - February 08, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Sajid: An addedum to my horribly put paragraph:

When you ask someone to give a suggestion on something or share his or her views on certain aspect of life, you either gain something or you lose something.

Gain: Approach, Ideas, Roadmap for the change.
Loss: Waste of time. If you did not find the thoughts and suggestions worth implementing (this is rare depending on the people you contact) then you may consider it a waste.
Procrastination or "Sustul-Wajoodi" : Now, this is when you know what you need to do and you have the roadmap as well. This is when you need to "i.m.p.l.e.m.e.n.t" and not let that knowledge get wasted. Just a suggestion!

For some people, it is easy to identify and suggest, whereas for others it is cool to implement. Probably, to each their own.


Name: Zahra - February 08, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Javed Zaki: I had some other thoughts to add to the travelogue/memoir that I took out. Whenever I do such a thing, my story/write-up shows a lack of something. I do that intentionally :)I will consider your suggestion seriously. Probably, I will put that story out for my upcoming newsletter. Thank You, Thank You for giving me the thought. I thought, I was just rambling. Now, I have an Idea :)!!! Thank You, again.


Name: Zahra - February 08, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Saeed Farani: I added the Alqabat out of sheer humor :D All of us have our own way of humor and sarcasm :) Do not we ? :)
By the way, I never realized that you were joking in that question. I thought it was very innocently asked. So, my devilish instincts woke up and said that let's respond to the question. That's what I did :)


Name: DullaBhatti - February 08, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Location:
,      USA
Comments:   Sameer: This one is special for you..after reading your post last night

ToTay ToTay paye hoye Punjab wale,
DhaTha kahir kai vaar nawaabiyaN da.
SikhaN, HinduaN, Shia, SunniaN da,
banneya piya Punjab WahaabiyaN da.
kittay chilmaN te hukkay raaj karde,
te kittay banneya hai eh sharaabiyan da.
PiraN, ashiqaN, YodheyaN, RanjhnaN da,
oye kithay giya Punjab PunjabiyaN da?


Name: Omer Saddozai - February 08, 2002
E-mail: dewwana@hotmail.com
My URL: http://www.yahoo.com/omersaddozai/echos
Location: Houston, Tx     USA
Comments:   Hi There Everyone! I was so full of excitement over the addition of Amrita Pretams 'Navein Rutt' that I just had to add in a few words of Thanks and Admiration! Mr. Rammah and Dr. Mansur Ejaz...BRavo is all i can manage to say! I have been a regular beneficiary of this site from the very earliest and have had the honour of observing this Institution grow from a struggling bud of a newly planted plant into a full-fledged tree in whose shade us all can sit and savour the rich traditions of Mother Punjabi. In few words keep it up and keep it Going! May our language progress by leaps and bounds in the years to come. Amen. Best Regards. Punjab Mera Raye Vasda!


Name: Saeed Farani - February 08, 2002
E-mail: saeedfarani@hotmail.com
Comments:   Mohtarma and Makarma Zahra, I was just kidding with Mr. Sajid on his question as why not four or six or more. He did not answer but you immediately reacted instead of him and unfortunately you always react in a funny way. Dear Zahra, we are all friends and learning from each others. I really love to read your comments always. And sometime I appreciate them too. Now what I am writing here please don't take it serious. I am just kidding with you becuuse you write me purely Bhia-terminalogy as "Mohtarmi Makarkmi etc)". I know you don't tease me. It is ur habit to call others with these Nawabi titles like mohtarmi and makarmi jee. Let us try to enjoy our this folk story. This story is about a male donkey (of course not female because female donkeys are always sharif (gentle) in Pakistan). Anyhow, that donkey was always used to beat others with his do-laties (two back legs) who so ever was passing near by him. It became his habit. And you know what has Waris Shah said, "Waris Shah na jaNdiyaN aadataaN wo, bhaNvayN kaTyey pouryaaN pouryaaN wo." Anyhow, one day a grass cutter (TOKA) was running behind behind him. He was forced due to his bad habit so he just threw his legs as usual to TOKA. And you know what happened and now just imagine. There is another interesting folk story of again male goat and house wife. WaDDI eid is coming near by so this story is very much linked with that. If you will wish I will write that in my coming mail. Best wishes. Rammah jee don't cut it please.


Name: DullaBhatti - February 07, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   I think there is a conspiracy going on against me at work...someone always schedules a meeting during the show time.:-( I caught only 5/7 mins of the show during one of the songs...but hey keep it up. Good job.


Name: Sameer - February 07, 2002
E-mail: jbsameer@yahoo.com
Location: New York,      USA
Comments:   Baliji: You were fully in Punjabiat mood as well as mode. You said all the right things in your radio show. How rational and simple ideas they seem but thanks to irrationality and man-made compexities, it sounds like surmounting ramparts of steel. Your choice of words was excellent in Punjabi and English. I just hoped that more people heed to such humane calls. Je tuse kamlee te asee sare hi kamley haaN. At least it gives satisfaction deep down for following absolutely harmless (to all), appropriate and sane convictions.

Saeed Farani: Here is some news item, I just copied from The News daily. Apparently there was a good seminar in Lahore recently.

'Feudals, bureaucrats behind Punjab division'

LAHORE: SPEAKERS of a seminar condemned the proposal to divide the Punjab province and held feudal barons and bureaucrats behind such a conspiracy. Holding the hatred against Punjab among smaller provinces a result of a series of unconstitutional measures, they demanded increased powers to smaller provinces to end their deprivation, revoking of amendments to the Constitution, equal increase in Senate seats for all provinces and revoking of the proposed technocrat seats in the assembly because it would bring corrupt bureaucrats to the assembly.

The seminar organised by a local Punjabi newspaper was chaired by former caretaker prime minister Malik Meraj Khalid, while other speakers included Chairman World Punjabi Congress Fakhar Zaman, journalists Mujibur Rehman Shami, Zia Shahid, Mudassir Butt, a social worker Tahira Mazhar Ali Khan, Dr Ajmal Niazi, Hameed Akhtar and Kanwal Mushtaq.

Malik Meraj Khalid said that certain adventurists earned a bad name for Punjab by imposing emergency and controlling provinces from the centre. 80 per cent SHOs in Sindh were from Punjab police which generated anger against Punjabis, he said.

He said that if the development programmes made under the leadership of Quaid-e-Azam were implemented, most of the economic and social problems would have been solved. He said that the military had been the biggest pro-status quo force in the country. Fakhar Zaman said that in fact feudals and bureaucrats were behind the idea of dividing Punjab. He demanded that charter of provincial rights should be written afresh, provinces be given more powers other than the constitutional rights, equal increase in Senate seats for all provinces and withdrawal of proposed technocrat seats.

He said that Liaquat Ali Khan was behind the decision of declaring Urdu as a national language. He said that Punjabi intellectuals and thinkers had served the nation more than any other. Tahira Mazhar Ali Khan said that Punjab had always sacrificed for the sake of national unity. She said that discussion about division should be discouraged to promote national unity and solidarity.


Name: Javed Zaki - February 07, 2002
E-mail: zakimoha@msu.edu
Comments:   Zahra Ji! I have been reading your postings based on your daily experiences, like the one about the Sikh taxi driver. I am highly convinced that by putting a little more effort, you can write a good short story out of this.


Name: Javed Zaki - February 07, 2002
E-mail: zakimoha@msu.edu
Comments:   For all! A new panjabi poem, titled

Des ba-des de dukhh di katha (An immigrant's Song)

Meri nirmal YaadaaN de vehRe
Meri maaN da charkha gohooke
Meri maaN da charkha gohooke

Rangla saaloo udd da jaave
Sat asmaanieN piN-gahaaN paave
MeiN chah-vaaN mere hath na aave
MeiN rovaaN oh kooke

Meri maaN da charkha gohooke

  KachiaaN galiaaN dhooR udendi
Rooh meri nooN mast karendi
Luddi nachdi jhammar paindi
Nit yaad onhaaN di phhooke
Meri maaN da charkha gohooke

  Rooh rut de sub rishte naate
Inj lagde jiveeN khhooh de khhaate
Saade dukhh saadi kismat jaate
Nit naag hijar da shooke
Meri maaN da charkha gohooke....


Name: Zahra - February 07, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Sajid: Some points were raised on this board based on individual outlook. I think the points that have been raised are valid and fine to a certain extent. After that, you will realize that there is a lot of work associated with creating a change around the various points. But, if we want to make a sincere effort, then we have to inculcate the sense of giving back in the community. How do we do that? If each educated person teaches three or five others, he gives back something to the community. If he takes his degree and leaves that country without even thinking from that perspective then he will only identify xyz issues and would never like to become part of the solution.

There is a myth amongst the wise ones that "EITHER YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM OR PART OF THE SOLUTION OTHERWISE YOU DO NOT EXIST" [Fine tuned by Little Me :)]
I will be interested to learn if Sameer JB has been involved in any efforts around the initiatives he brought up in his Paanch Nukaat. Bringing up the issues and identifying the steps that need to be taken is one thing; and is commendable to a certain extent. In a country like Pakistan, we are way past the stage of bringing up issues and identifying solutions(to a certain extent). We ought to begin implementing the solutions we recommend/suggest. No one will come and do that for us. I do not want to put anyone on the spot, but I am just curious.

We can also take a look at the profile and characteristics of certain immigrant populations in the west and observe their traits.
I twisted your question, mainly, as I do not believe in whys. But I do believe in whynots :)


Name: Zahra - February 07, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Sajid: I will come back to your questions later. By the way, whenever I say that I will come back to something later, I am always reminded of that :D

Mukurmee Mohtarmee Saeed Farani: Probably, it's the school system that one should put the blame on. We were always taught and asked to produce 5 points, paanch nukaat and etc...


Name: DullaBhatti - February 07, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   Anwar Masood di shairee ne te pinD di sair kara ditti ay. I really enjoyed it.


Name: Saeed Farani - February 07, 2002
E-mail: saeedfarani@hotmail.com
Location: Rawalpindi, Punjab     USA
Comments:   Dear S. A. Sajid Jee, As Ms Zahra asked you the cause behind this question so you got very good answer from Bhai Sameer jee in detail. I could not understand that why did you want to know only the five reasons of low literacy rate in Pakistan. Why not four or six or unlimited. Anyhow, may be you just wanted to count them on your five fingers of the hand. So if you are doing some sort of research on this topic then here are some suggestions. Just visit the library of "DAWN" at Zero Point and "The News" at Marree Road, near Marreer Chowk. Both the libraries have dozens of articles and hundreds of news cuttings in the form of files. Both the guys are very cooperative in the libraries. You can make photo copies of those files and it can help you a lot in your research. Then you can visit Arid University's education department. Over 40 thesis have been compiled on this or near this topic. Then you can visit Allama Iqbal University's library, you can find much material on this topic too. And don't take this issue just as educational point of view but try to link it with economics and political affairs. This is the hard luck of the people ( in fact insects) of this region that the only thing which has been badly ignored in Pakistan is education and proper education. In the last 54 years no any government had ever given priority to this the most important social sector. And today, we are facing multi-facial miseries in our lives. Try to read the book of Lala Hardial Singh, Hints for self culture. Best wishes.


Name: Bali K Deol - February 07, 2002
E-mail: swaraj@shaw.ca
Comments:   The girl that sings those lines at the beginning of the song is Hema Sharma, when she was just 14 years old. Great Voice.


Name: H. Dheensa - February 07, 2002
E-mail: Jullandhur@aol.com
Location: Wolverhampton,      U.K.
Comments:   Kiddah, Has anyone ever heard the song PMC vs Bally Sagoo? (I dunno if it was ever realised in the U.S.A.) The poem that she sings at the start of the song: (i)"Mera nak vich nathani, te tan uthe ghaggari, te mere kane pardiu dandia, O Bulleh Shah.........." (/i) Is it the same as the film "Train to Pakistan"? (I saw the film a while ago) I'm sure I've heard in other songs and so forth. Why is this poem so widely used? Also anyone know the name of the girl who sings it? Thanks.


Name: S.A.Sajid - February 07, 2002
E-mail: sajidamjad@hotmail.com
My URL: http://www.angelfire.com/home/sajidamajd/index.htm
Location: Islamabad,      Pakistan
Comments:   Dear Sameer Thanks a lot for the five reasons of low literacy rate in pakistan. Once again thanks a lot. Dear Zahra you asked me about the background reason for the five reasons that "Why literacy rate is so low in Pakistan". So, the behind purpose is that once I was discussing with my friends about this lack. Every person was giving his own points so I decided to ask the APNA members. I an also researching on this topic. Now can u help? Dear Saeed Farani Bari mehrbani yaar keh tusi aina time menu ditta. Tuhada bahut bahut shukriya.


Name: Zahra - February 07, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Sameer JB:
[We must understand also that most articles and opinions are a mix of objective and subjective opinions. No two people agree about everything in the world. Important point is that if the opinion is helpful in promoting Punjabi language and culture as a whole. His article does exactly that.]

The above was indeed a poignant thought, khilafae tawaqqau. Was it an orginal thought or a borrowed one ? :)


Name: Zahra - February 07, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   The weekend is a few days away but I wanted to write an episode that took place today. I am down with severe sinusites and bad throat but was requested to provide expert opinion and oversee the process of brainstorming effort on a project. So, here I was running at the client site early today and then had to go back to my office and put together the collected thoughts in form of a presentation. Many thoughts were coming and going while I was waiting for a cab to stop. I took one from 34th/7th and requested the driver to head towards downtown-financial district. It was crazy in Manhattan today due to President's presence in the city. The roads were jam packed and even short distances took ages to pass. The cab I hailed was being driven by a south asian chap. I started telling him where I would exactly liked to be dropped.On further checking, it turned out that he was from India. I had taken him for a Pakistani. I asked, 'which part?' He said, "Amritsar." When he said North India, I emphasized, "specify?" So, as he spoke about Amritsar...we started sharing notes on different places. I told him about the famous mitha-iaan(sweets) from Amritsaris and Jalandharis in Lahore and Gujranwala. He started telling his katha kahani.

All the friends, acquaintences, colleagues and strangers I came across in my life, would always share their personal life stories with me. I never asked anyone and never cared to delve into anyone's life history, but somehow people always confided in me. This driver spoke about his family, his kids and the fact that he could not pursue higher studies here. I told him that he should come out of the stupid notion that just because he is of xyz age therefore he is past the age of learning. He was a citizen but had his wife and kids back in amritsar and had to move here at the time of the sikh riots. Interestingly, this was the first sikh that I have met who was bald headed and clean shaved. I asked him if he was a sikh and he said yes. He also told me that most of the sikhs live in England. Or I should say most of the ones in his family lived in England. Strong community!By the time, we were nearing my destination, he told me an episode that he encountered after Sept 11th. Some drunken felows(Irish passengers) misbehaved with him and he was very upset because of that. He, ironically, identified the fact that his job was a very rewardless position. He could not stand up for himself or contact the police when any passenger misbehaved as the police would always side with the passengers and not with the driver. Also, all the more reason as he was dark skinned, he will be discrimanted against. Somehow, I had nothing to say to console; for I realized that whatever I will tell him would not be sufficient to give a clear cut route or way out of his misery. Simply, because I have not been there. He was not an illiterate or uneducated fellow. He had a masters in geography from India. He tried to open his own business many times, but it did not work out for him. I told him that running and managing a business is not everyone's cup of tea. I also gave him some suggestions before reaching my destination. My brother would have told me up front, "Zahra, Allah Kae Wastae...Dadi Jaan Kee Tarah Kee Bataen Mut Karo. You have not seen everything in life. Ok! Just act your age." [My brother and I are hardly a year apart.] As I paid the driver, he told me that it was very nice hearing your views and thoughts ...Bari Khushi Hoaee Aae Taudae' Naal Gul Kurkae.

At the end of the day, I am forced to conclude that life is a journey. We ran into people from all casts and creeds. We cannot stop everywhere and give and take at each station but somehow I really felt sad and a little bad for the driver as I did not have a viable solution to offer to his woe "discrimination." I mean, these cab drivers, work 24X7 and are mistreated like hell. Of course, they also drve crazily at times, but they are human beings. Also, from all parts of the world. In fact, many are from our part of the world. I insisted that he should have complained to his Union if he was not comfortable to call the 911. But he was hesitant due to his previous bad experiences in India with the law enforcing groups. We were near Battery Park, when he was literally in tears, while stating his experience with the drunken fellows. Just to build his morale, I told him that at least he was alive and breathing. What about those who went to work and never returned? He listened to me very carefully and did not say anything afterwards. But I did realize that one person's woe may not be other person's concern. So, if there are different fine layers in the society, who addresses the concerns of all layers? Should each layer has its own rep to voice and represent them? If there are 6 layers and only four of them have reps then what will happen to the rest of the two? Concerned Me!


Name: Bali K Deol - February 06, 2002
E-mail: swaraj@shaw.ca
Comments:   Farrana, Kumeet Singh's article was an emotional one, I think by making the point about his host offering him halal, he was simply showing his disapointment, that the hosts were ignorant of his beliefs. The Punjab was unified, differences were celebrated, HIndu's, Sikhs, and Muslims dressed up for Eid, mosques lit up at Diwali, everybody celebrated Baisakhi and Lohri. Your comment about if he cares so much for a unified Punjab based on language then why was he so picky about being served hahal or offered tobacco by a liberal minded host is a little unfair. Unification based on language does not mean that you have to abandon some of the key aspects of your faith, 'just to fit it'. I'm sure back in the day, Muslims didn't eat Pork because a liberal minded Sikh offered it, and Hindu's didn't eat cow because a liberal minded Hindu offered it. We can unify through our common heritage, whilst still respecting each other's personal faith boundaries. Over half of my closest friends are Muslim, many times situations have arisen where we could easily have argued, offended each other? We each make ourselves aware of the others faith, and we make the effort to respect, and to be sensitive to each others differences. If this did not happen, needless to say we probably would not be friends. Sikhs, Hindu's and Muslims lived side by side, fought against invasions side by side, Muslims bulit Gurdwara's, Sikhs built Mosques, and in just 50 short years the sad thing is we have forgotten so much about each other.


Name: farrana - February 06, 2002
E-mail: fyogi@ivillage.com
Comments:   Well I apologise for any misunderstanding before. My first post was hold against without understaning my point of view. All I wanted to say was If the author did think of Union based on language then why was he picky about a liberal minded host serving him Halaal?


Name: farrana - February 06, 2002
E-mail: fyogi@ivillage.com
Comments:   Well I would like to pose questions here. Will a sikh born in Southern states of India have different thinking than the one born in Punjab or else where? or Should a muslim of punjab have differnt culture than rest of the muslims of the world? A hindu born in punjab will have more uniting facts with the rest of the Hindus in India than just the langugae. Should a Hindu of Punjab stop listening to Bhajn and listen to Hamd-Naat in Punjabi till he finds a punjabi Bhajn singer?


Name: Sameer - February 05, 2002
E-mail: jbsameer@yahoo.com
Comments:   It is not difficult to deduce, from Kulmeet Singh's article, his ostensibly desire for unified Punjab. From that standpoint his entire article could be ignored or misunderstood by nationalists Pakistanis and Indians. However, we must understand the effects of upbringing primarily outside of India and Pakistan of those Punjabis who have been born and raised in Diaspora. An Indian Punjabi dominant upbringing in USA or England will have them less concerned about common bond with Bengal or Southern States. Similarly in case of Pakistani Punjabi born and raised abroad will have similar thinking about Balochis or Afghans. At the same time, chances are more for Muslim or Hindu Punjabi born and raised in Diaspora to still view the sub-continent through Pakistan and India because of teaching at home. Kulmeet Singh has little reason to love India or Pakistan even without considering the partition rioting and Indira Gandhi's actions against Sikhs.

We must understand also that most articles and opinions are a mix of objective and subjective opinions. No two people agree about everything in the world. Important point is that if the opinion is helpful in promoting Punjabi language and culture as a whole. His article does exactly that.

For us who have been born and raised to some extent in Pakistan and India, it will always be striking a balance between national as well as Punjabiat. Some will be more nationalistic, particularly when it comes to sacrificing Punjabi interests when they collide with the national ones. If for some unknown reasons, things change at national level with opportunities of relallignment, the united Punjab slogan will not look down as anti-nationalistic as it is today. It is almost certain that Pakistani Punjabis will oppose a united India as a pre-requisite for united Punjab. However, a united Punjab, against faltering nation states in the sub-continent and instead of creating another alliance with the Muslims to the west of Punjab, will have far greater appeal than joining Afghanistan, Tajikistan,...........Until then, a better understanding among Punjabis on benign (to nation states) common causes like promotion of Punjabi language and culture among Punjabis is the best path.

Some of the teachings of sufism can help bridge this gap when pluralism and diversity has been eliminated as a consequence of partition. As Kulmeet Singh writes that Sufism thrives in diversity and multi-religious society because it offers non-violenet means to compromising. The success of non-Sufi Islam in Punjab recently is the direct result of the loss of diversity and pluraity. The importance of Sufism, Bhagti movement and Guru Nanak's teachings have been reduced to history or literary value.

Having said all that, my vision of united or divided Punjab is prosperous and progressive. History of noble Punjabis can only provide a base or starting point towards this end. It will take lot more than Sufism, looking forward. In addition to promoting Punjabi language and appreciating modern Punjabi thinkers and writers, a united stand behind reason, humanism and rationality will bear more fruits in the future.

Being a non-religious but ardent supporter of Punjabiat, the pictures of historical figure serve no purpose for me. Not that I am not a fan of Sufi literature but, for me, 21st century paradidms demand lot more than obsession with Sufism only. Why four, why not 100 or none? It is funny that it has become a turn off for me to see the picture of a Punjabi lyricist, named Shamsher Sabdhu??? (apologies to DullaBhatti) so often on Punjabi CDs of paticularly of Surjit Bhidhrakhia. It is almost Lata Mangeshkar phenomenon all over again. Not that it is bad quality but it is just counter to competition from newcomers. Nobody could ever be as good as Bulley Shah, Iqbal or Ghalib, says who? To me Faiz was much appealing than Ghalib and Iqbal combined and hopefully future has in store for Punjabi better than Bulley Shah and Baba Farid.The best of Punjabiat has yet to come.


Name: DullaBhatti - February 05, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   gursharn paahji, tusi aweiN poche na pao..Daler Mehndi nu gaana kithey aunda ay? ehday naaloN te changay saadian daadian pinDaN wich vainn paa laindiyan ne. ainnee sohni haik laundian bai murda uTh ke puchhda ay, eh makaan kithoN ayee aa?. baaki rahi gall nachan tappan di..I have no complain lekin ohnu kaho apni gardhan(dhaun) naal lai ke ayea kare stage te...modheyaN utte sir dhareya changa nai lagda.:-).
Main mazaak kar ria vaan..hunn hor gussa na kar liyo.


Name: gursharan singh - February 05, 2002
E-mail: gsinghh@hotmail.com
Location: reston, va     USA
Comments:   re: raman's response to Zahra's comment re: daler mehdi on Feb. 1 2002 Bhaai Raman, aapdey response to pata lag reha hai ke bada gussa hai daler naal.jis daler di baley baley ton itni khij aandi hai. os daler di sab to pehli album sun ke vekh. je nahin hegi tey mai mail kar ssakda haan. ohde vich thoda bohut sufi swaad v hai. je banda chaj di tape banave te saade varge lokaan nu labhdi nahin te assi toda chaari daa hai ke banda chaj di cheej nahin gaanda. naale oh tuhade buhey te nahin aaya ke mere geet aapni website te paavo. kise vi talkh-kalami di maafi mangda haan. par veer ji you don't have to get on the guy's case like that.


Name: Saeed Farani - February 05, 2002
E-mail: saeedfarani@hotmail.com
Comments:   Dear Dullah Bhatti, Thanks for guiding me to www.paash.net. I visited this site. It is wonderful. I will try to see it thoroughly soon. Its fonts are little problem. Sameer veer jee, thanks for your brillient thoughts. Bhai Rammah jee, I would love to join the meeting of Dr. Manzur Ejaz in Lahore. There is one another news in todays Urdu newspaper "KhabrayN" that the Pushto language antheme was sung in the Bacha Khan's memorial function in Peshawar where thousands of Pathans participated and Begum Nasim Wali Khan was weeping on the stage. Just, watch what the Pathans are thinking now. Punjabies can learn from Pathan, Sindhis, Balochs and Muhajirs. It is a time to think a lot about your future. Ni Sassiye be-khabrey tera luTya sheh Bhanbhor nee...........Ni Sassiye be-khabrey.


Name: Bali K Deol - February 04, 2002
E-mail: swaraj@shaw.ca
Comments:   Reading some of todays comments, I had many corrections to some factual mistakes, specifically in Farrana's posting. After thinking about it for a few moments I declined. (p)My reasoning, that its funny I read the article and saw the writer had illustrated in my mind, a united peaceful Punjab with some obeservations on our differences in awareness of each other, in our 50 year separation. Yet, others read it very defensively, and got upset and took it as a personal attack on their people or faith. This is a Punjabi site, and its so easy to let faith get in the way, I figured if I responded to the points that I wished to, it could easily be spurned on further, because first of all, each party has to have the genuine desire to become more aware of the other people in our family, not simply to know enough to have a comeback ready for justification or endorsement of our own views. Farrana Sikhs are not prohibited from eating halal meat, simply because muslims eat it, that indeed would make us very shallow. I won't go into why we don't eat it, because this is not supposed to be a discussion on halal versas jhatka. Really as a culture and people under daily subtle attack we have much greater issues at stake, than this. Our brother Hindu's would argue that we are all wrong, and that vegetarianism is the best, as would many Sikhs that believe eating meat is wrong. So isn't it better if we read what we find, without our usual defence mechanisms on auto pilot. If we don't get into the whose faith is more qualified to have an opinion. Perhaps we will see a budding flower instead of a dying rose. We are all from one God, ik khudaa ne khudai banai, kayaaN rangaaN vich shaamal keeti, te jab oh vekh ke muskaraunde ne, assi mathe teerian kyon PaayaN.


Name: DullaBhatti - February 04, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   Suman ji, I agree with most of your points. In lot of Punjabiyat discussions Punjabi Hindus are missing and I am glad you pointed that out. Irrespective of what Manmeet said I think we do have an issue of two too religious(different) motivated Punjabis getting along..but then that is not true only for us that is probably true about all races and religions. Like you said our elders lived together and got around these issues for centuries and so can we. They did it in moderation. Sameer can give dozens of exmaples how all faiths in Punjab were intermingled and in some cases indistinguishable from each other. There are still people and places in Punjab who are not very sure of whether they are hindus or muslims or what. Key here is moderation and respecting the boundaries where they exist.


Name: suman - February 04, 2002
E-mail: skashy@yahoo.com
Comments:   This morning I read, with growing dismay, the article by Kulmeet Singh. I am at a loss to understand why, given the aims and objectives of APNA, such an article was posted at all, as it in no way contributes to those stated objectives.

The internet is filled with sites that spew forth ignorant and divisive views. I had believed that APNA is a place where, through a sweet language and a profound literature, Punjabis could find their healing common ground. Singh, though, has a blind eye to history and present reality. He also has an insidious agenda, clearly stated. He suggests an understanding between Pakistani Punjabi Muslims and Diaspora Sikhs (not a new idea anyway)- he pointedly excludes Hindu Punjabis and Indian Sikhs, who, we are to suppose, are poor stupid sods brainwashed by bollywood into a state of non-punjabiness. Singhs statements re. alchohol, pork and cigarettes are a dead giveaway about his (mal)intent.

Three faiths co-existed in Punjab - Hinduism, Islam and Sikhism. Punjabi literature echoes with their combined theologies, philosophies and wisdoms. It seems to me to be contrary to the goals of APNA to endorse the divisive views of people like K.Singh.


Name: Raman - February 04, 2002
E-mail: raman424@hotmail.com
Comments:   who cares who drinks and who smokes and who does drugs? everyone to their own beliefs Just respect each other and keep religion out of it


Name: DullaBhatti - February 04, 2002
E-mail: Dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   I guess Manmeet Singh is a person who says what is on his mind and says it quickly without doing any taal matol about it..that is why he is a CEO type of leader and not a politician type. He has been direct and forthcoming at many other instances in the article but Farrana conveniently picked the one he/she felt more comfortable to vent on. What I make of it is that...that even though we belong to the same culture and language we need to learn lot about each other's religion and be considerate about it. There are too many streotypes and misconceptions that need to be removed through understanding and interaction.

I will give couple of examples from my personal experience. As a personal preference I don't eat pork(although I am sikh...does that mean I have to eat it since Farrana does not?:-)). I have to tell only once to my colleagues about it and never in future, when we go for lunch or dinner together and share the dishes,anyone will order pork. That is called being understanding and considerate. Manmeet being american born and bred does not probably know this that desis, regardless of our religious or regional affiliation, are some of the very inconsiderate people. We firmly believe in what we do is right and has prefernce over everyone else. Very evident from the previous message. Heck my mother-in-law thinks the way her mother taught her how to cook saag is the only and best way and everyone else amongst 120 million punjabis is doing it wrong for centuries...not to mention that is the way it is cooked in my house:-).

Tobacco and liquor is another example which we have big misconceptions. Most of Sikhs and Hindus think that Tobacco is integral part of Islam and that is why most Muslims smoke. On the other hand when muslims think about sikhs, a bearded guy with a bottle in hand is the image that comes to mind. I think Dr. Manzur Ejaz wrote something about it last year when he visited Indian Punjab. One time I was visitng some of my muslim friends and we were having good time and talking for hours sitting in a hotel room. Many of them were smoking and it became so suffocating that we had to open a window at some point. Then later in the evening couple of riends brought the beer bottles out. A couple of the biggest smokers in the room left the room (probably in disgust) that how could they drink beer/sharaab. Interestingly I don't drink and the guys who brought beers were also fellow muslims...Anyway, this is a touchy subject based on mostly streotypes that need to broken.


Name: farrana - February 04, 2002
E-mail: fyogi@ivillage.com
Comments:   "I was also dismayed at my Pakistani hosts who lit up cigarettes in front of me or graciously offered me halal meat unmindful of the Sikh anathema for tobacco and sacrificial meat. I hope a Sikh would never present his Muslim guest with a pork chop." No offence to any religion and culture. Well First Sikh followers has to undrstand Islam existed in the Arab world way long before the sikhism started existed so did the Islamic culture. So Islamic culture is widely known around the world. But a person not born in India or non sikh hardly knows about Sikhism for its follower is considered not majority. In sikhism Halal meat is not allowed just because Muslims eat it in that way. On the other hand Islam never had anything against any religion. Prohibiting pork kas lot of benefit to an individual's health. Mostly warm countries are follower of Islam where eating pork is not just healthy . Islam prohibition towards pork has more stronger reasons than some one not eating haalal meat just because Muslims eat it that way. Haaal meat is considered healthy as it drains away blood and blood is the carrier of most disease so does the pig. So anybody wants to eat "Jhatka" meat or quick death to animal has only emotional basis as opposed to the Islamic one. So disregarding a muslims prohibition and offering him pork can only mean someone is ignorant about a religion or philosophy of life which has boasting amount of followers. Most practical reason the host was just offering him a meal with a good intention but in a Islamic country its impossible for him to offer anything other than haalal. Its also confusing when he was born in America and to have no to anything. Same way its an individual muslim's responsibilty visiting a non muslim country let the host know if he is still bias towards haalal and pork chops. Nothing get to each other throat for no reason. Cig is not allowed in islam as it is addictive and cause harm to health. To me host was treating him just as an American. Last but not least host seemed no religious given the fact he was smoking and didnt have any intention to cause Islam and sikhism uproar.


Name: DullaBhatti - February 04, 2002
E-mail: DullaBhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   Painting are beautiful. This is called web page nu chaar chann lagg gaye ne:-). Good job.

Zakki sahib, you write in very ThaiTh punjabi..how had you kept that alive. It is hard for a fish to survive out of pond(in this case out of pinD:-)). Here is a web page dedicated to Paash for you and Saeed Farani.
http://www.paash.net/
It almost all in Gurmukhi.


Name: Javed Zaki - February 04, 2002
E-mail: zakimoha@msu.edu
Comments:   Dear Farani! Thanks for appreciating my recent poem. I wish you should have read my other poems. I have thoroughly read 'PAASH" poetry (Inkaar). He was a great revolutionary, killed by fundamentalists for his progressive ideals and work. As a matter of fact, I dedicated one of my poems to him... ~Tandoor bhakhao tandoor... ~GallaaN chhaddo aahre laggo... ~gille chhoade vi bhakh posan... ~tusi dhoni val khayaal rajhao... ~Dhoni di laat da manaara bansi... ~Te aale dwaale diaaN saariaaN chungaaN... ~kirmo kirmi kirsun... ~Dhoni di laat naabhar (rebel) gabh-rooaaN de piR buj poan da nishaan bansi... ~Maae bukht bhare, naabhar sheedaaN de vaen nieN paai de... ~OnhaaN de dhole gaai de ne... ~OhnaaN de naaN ratte jhandiaaN te likkh ke... ~Aazadi di sik (chahat) nooN chaRhaave chaRhaai de ne... ~OhnaaN de naaN bakhde mathiaaN (foreheads) te likkh ke... ~Khalqat vich gumm (lost) thi jaai da e... ~EviN bulsi dive toaN diva... ~OhnaaN de naaN jungel bailiaaN te vassan aale kaale badlaaN de monhaaN (faces) te likkh chhoRi da e... ~EviN Dulla Bhatti, Ahmad khharl te Bhagat Singh jaie naabhar gabh-rooaaN de jhund ugsan... ~Tandoor bakhaan da unt mudh... ~Te fer paksan roat (large breads).


Name: Javed Zaki - February 04, 2002
E-mail: zakimoha@msu.edu
Comments:   Rammah Ji! What about photo of Baba Guru Nanak Ji.


Name: Saeed Farani - February 03, 2002
E-mail: saeedfarani@hotmail.com
Location: Rawalpindi, Punjab     Pakistan
Comments:   It is very nice to see the fotos of our great Sufi poets, Baba Farid, Shah Hussain, Bullhey Shah and Waris Shah, on the opening page. Please try to include also the fotos of Sultan Bahoo, Mian Mohammad Bakhash, Khawaja Ghulam Farid amd Pir Mehr Ali Shah. This way you will cover the whole Punjab. There are many other sufi poets but these eight are more popular. I always appreciate your this great interesting effort. At least, it is better to light a candle instead of cursing darkness. Best wishes.


Name: Bali K Deol - February 03, 2002
E-mail: swaraj@shaw.ca
Comments:   The article by Kulmeet Singh 'Back to the Punjab', was a down to earth and refreshing observation of the psyche of the Pakistani Punjabi. Reading it invoked many emotions, and melancholy feelings. For someone such as myself who has not spent more than 3 months (aside from infancy) in the Punjab it caused pangs of longing, of wishing to go back in time just for one day so I could see my Punjab, in all her glory. Nachda, tapda, hasda Punjab. Observing today where Punjab stands, I was reduced to tears, kehnde hunde a lok, ki koi maa da ser nanga nahi karda, par assi ik maa de puttar, te dheeyan hoke, ohnu nangiya keeta. I bemoan the fact that my ancestors let this happen. Still it is heartwarming to see so many of you that are working so hard to bring back the smile to my 'mother's' face. God willing one day, we will again lift Punjab to the glorious heights that she so richly deserves.


Name: Zahra - February 03, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   As the color sensitive eyes go over the pictures of all the buzurgs and poets on the front page, they feel like suggesting the following:
a) Please update the rest of the font-colors on the main page as well. When I say update, I mean have consistency in the spirit behind the color. The blue fonts are more appealing to the tasteful human eyes :). The shift from blue to gray is just falling on the ground while riding a well-decorated ride. In other words, please update the outlook of the music links. Some of them have a gray touch and some have a lifeless pink one. Now, I don't mean to ridicule the choice of colors here. Gray and pink are a beautiful combination by themselves, but here it's a little out-of-place. It should be something different. I will be more than happy to be amongst the audience or the only audience member to assist in suggesting or validating the various color schemes.
There is such an invaluable treasure behind each link on this board that I feel and am obligated to provide my "valuable :)" suggestions to see the outlook of this site fine-tune to the best of its capabilities. I also understand that there is a lot of effort and dedication behind putting up various links and art and actual works. Having an eye for appealing color combinations, I could not resist but suggest some change or updates in some areas. Baqi Ayinda!


Name: Zahra - February 03, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   I just logged on and found the front page looking so sweet and cute. Good Job, Safir Rammah! This is becoming like a pandora's box and reminds me of Dastanae Ameer Hamza and the world of Tilism'ae'Hosh Ruba :)


Name: Sameer - February 03, 2002
E-mail: jbsameer@yahoo.com
Comments:   Thanks Safir Rammah Saheb for adding Kulmeet Singh's very simple yet powerful article with clearly presenting the convictions of the author, on the front page. I liked his characterization of the common culture between Indus and Jamuna rivers, Punjabi first with respect to issues important to Punjab and above all the loss of pluraity and thus liberal thinking due to partition. He goes on to say that partition was really partition of Punjab in the sense of its ramifications, such as loss of plurality, liberal thinking, rioting and loss to Punjabi language. This tide of ramifications must be stopped and possibly reversed.

Dheensa: All HTML commands you need for writing bold characters and paragraphs are those b, /b and p all within brackets, the shift+, and shift+. Other commands are not really as important. Whenever you need to start a paragraph, just write bracketed p until you need another paragraph. For bold you need commands for begining bold and ending bold characters as mentioned in blue color above the window for interacting.

Hope this will help.


Name: Iqbal Hadi Zaidi - February 02, 2002
E-mail: zedihz@hotmail.com
Location: Kuwait,      Kuwait
Comments:   I want to be your associate member in Kuwait. Please list me in Kuwait where you have already shown one person. Iqbal Hadi Zaidi (M.A. 1966 + LL.B.69 + D.L.L.72+ D.T.L.72) Fintas P.O.Box 1368, Code 51014, Kuwait Tel + Fax (00965) 3715102


Name: Vijay Kapoor - February 02, 2002
E-mail: vkkapoor@hotmail.com
Location: Renton, WA     USA
Comments:   Hello Suman Ji: Please accept my sincere thanks for taking up this onorous task of transliteration of Punajbi literature in vernacular english. Job well begun is half done!! It may be hard for you to imagine how much I enjoyed reading Shiv Kumar Batalvi and Bulle Shah's works (because I can understand, but unfortuantely can neither read or write, Punjabi in any script. Hope you will continue to favor people like me with your english transliteration works in future as well. Thanks a lot.


Name: H. Dheensa - February 02, 2002
E-mail: Jullandhur@aol.com
Comments:   How do you use the HTML commands? Thanks


Name: Zahra - February 02, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Raman: I agree as well as disagree with you on your stance. I agree that this site promotes a different flavor and indeed preservation of that flavor ought to be demanded as well as desired. So, I stand corrected!

I disagree with you when you implied him as if he was some airaa ghaira nathoo khaira and should not be acknowledged on this forum. Now, your intent may be different from what I deciphered, but your style was condescending towards him. Please take a look into that. He is "the only singer/musician" for whom my friend and I traveled at least 75-100 miles one way, just to listen to his concert. I apologize to differ with you in many respects. He has sung some of the sweetest and rhythmic lyrics. He has also resung some old traditional songs with far more life and vigor that anyone else could. My friend and I thoroughly enjoyed his concert. In fact, the lunatics from Indian Film Industry should have been kicked out for their cheap and retarded stage antics and this chap needed to be there from the beginning till the end. Unfortunately, as the organizers never consulted my "holy" opinion, therefore I could not advise them early on :D Anyway, he has sung one of my favorite numbers:
~Ucheeyaan Lumyeeyaan Laal Khajooraan...
~Jis Dum Naal Aae Preet O Saddee...
~O Dum Nazr Na Avae...
~Ghulam Farid Dil Oathae' Daeyae'...
~Jithae'
~UglaaQadar Vee Janae...
~Umraan Langeeyaan PabaaN Phaar

Now, can you say that he has not sung the above? Also, it was previously sung by either amanat ali khan or his son asad amanat ali as I have heard from some elders. But these are very famous lyrics and verses from our poetry. Now, if he has added vivacity to those lyrics then appreciate that. OK! I abhor Indian Movies, but when it comes to Daler Mehdi, I would {always}{always}{always} and {always}watch and listen to his sweet notes. I do not like all of his songs necessarily, but I love his uplifting spirit. In our wedding ceremonies,his songs are played like hell and the mehndis and mayoans and dholkis are not played without his melodious tune. From early 90s to mid 90s, all the weddings had his songs' blessings. Now, due to the bhangraa mixes and jhankar tunes, he is out there in bits and pieces but he is there. It's a pleasure to listen and switch back and forth from middle-eastern-algerian to punjabi bhangra mixes: a very common blend in our wedding ceremonies. In short, please do not be derogatory in your critique towards him. OK. Thanks.


Name: Saeed Farani - February 01, 2002
E-mail: saeedfarani@hotmail.com
Comments:   Dear Dr. Zaki, BaRRee zordar nazm ey. Menu tuhade ik ik akhkhar choN PAASH de khiyalaaN dee baas aundi ey. Eho jehyaaN nazmaaN aj de samey dee loR ey. Tey ehnaaN nooN PunjabiyaaN tak apRaana chahi da ey. Veri fer Punjab de tin tote karan de torey tey turey hoye je.


Name: Javed Zaki - February 01, 2002
E-mail: zakimoha@msu.edu
Comments:   Sajjan Mitro! Ik naveeN panjabi nazm da chuss lavoo. Rammah Ji. Please set it properly. (translation in brackets)...... (((((( Kabhadde (bad) vaile da virva (review)}}}}}}}}}}}}}} ShihaaN (lions)pattan malle................................ UttooN kangaaN (flood waves) de jhund laththe.............. Bub-bun jaththe............................................ Kaa-waR (anger) miththe.................................... Eh raat qahr di bhaari..................................... ratt (khoon) chati-aari.................................... Te paar ulaar de taahngi (hopeful) beThhe.................. Bukkal sadh-raaN (ideals) ghutti........................... Jind sehar (dawn) sohaag di lutti.......................... KehRhe saoo vaile, kise rutt (moasam) sajri de taahngi..... Kise NaveeN svair de saahngi (saathi).................. aas na-raas di jhull (shroud) nooN laah ke................. ApniaaN sooliaaN (crosses) modhe cha ke.................... DhaaR-viaaN (exploiters)) de ghar ja dhukkan (invade)...... Te shaala ghorr henaire mukkan.............................


Name: Javed Zaki - February 01, 2002
E-mail: zakimoha@pilot.msu.edu
Comments:   Dulla Bhatti Ji. yes! it is published by sang-i-meel publications, 20-shahrah-i-Pakistan, Lahore. The price tag is Rs.795. I was really carried away by the introductory excerpts which I posted. My family (from both sides) comes from Gujranwala and its surrounding.


Name: Raman - February 01, 2002
E-mail: raman424@hotmail.com
Comments:   Zara said in her post to add daler mehndi. No offence to you Zara but I feel that mr mehndi most certainly can NOT be added to such a rich site as this which is dedicated to true Punjabi not tara rara or chui mui chui mui or such hindi pop nonsense with 2 words of meaningless punjabi added in balle balle! He can never be compared to the other great punjabi masters on this site such as Nusrat Fateh ALI Khan or the great sufi poets Bulleh Shah or other punjabi legends Asa Singh Mastana, Shiv Kumar Batalvi or any other trasures on this site. Please do not spoil this rich site there are many other sites which cater for meaningless pop of mr mehndi


Name: Zahra - February 01, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   I read a few questions and remarks by some participants on this board on the language and its nuances. Here is an account of a personal experience:

Last year as I was headed to Lahore via PIA, I ran into two interesting people in my seating row. One was an elderly and active lady from Gujrat and the other one was a young chap from Multan. Now, the lady and I exchanged pleasantries on and off. I had quite a few books with me to read and browse through during the 18 hour journey(flying time). She would ask me questions every now and then, despite my opened book. Anyway, I would talk to her in Urdu and she would respond to me in both Urdu and Punjabi. Then our conversation took an interesting spin and she started delving into her life's details: her sons, their wives, her daughters and family lands and etc. The lady was in clear white burraq dress. Now, after the layover in UK, she came back and started chatting with me and this time she did not want me to pick up my books and get carried away with them. So, she resumed her side of the story. This time she told me that mainoo urdu naeen changee tarah aandi tae main tuadae naal punjabi vich gallan karaan gee. I told her very politely, please go ahead. I can understand you very well. She told me about her daughters and their educational level. I insisted that she should let them work, get some exposure and not marry them off just because they have reached a certain stage. Very typical of me :)

On another note, there is a trend that I have observed amongst people from the belt: Gujranwala, Jhelum, Gujrat, Gujjar Khan...the Punjabi spoken in these areas can be easily deciphered by me[of course]. The educated class from these areas has a sweetness about them. Pata Naheen Kyoun? May be it is the water or the soil or the air? Anyway, it was a delight to talk to this lady. After a long time, my ears heard a certain sweetness. Now, I also started using certain expressions as my ears heard those from her. When I landed in Lahore that night/morning and was at the dining table with Ammi Abu...I started telling them about all the interesting episodes in the flight and then gave them a detailed account of my encounter with that lady. Interestingly, I gave the details of that encounter in the same format as I was told by my narrator. My parents were pleasantly surprised and amused. Just wanted to state a personal experience that listening comprehension adds a lot to one's fluency. It's the same with Arabic. Being Muslims, many of us offer our prayers in Arabic; can read and write very well; but cannot speak as we do not hear it being spoken in our surroundings. Something to think about!


Name: Zahra - February 01, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Recommendation # 1: [/br]Bolo Tara Tara[/br] [/br]http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000002SUM/qid=1012588144/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_3_1/102-4933787-0029715


Name: Zahra - February 01, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Dear Safir Rammah: Time for some more updates to the Apna Music front. Please add Daler Mehdi and his captivating tunes on this site. I will send you the links in the next few days or hours :) Best Regards!


Name: DullaBhatti - February 01, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   I did search on Amazon.com. It is a book available no at Amazon but may be at Sangh-e-Meel publication as they are the publishers.

Gujranwala, the glory that was -- Salman Rashid


Name: DullaBhatti - February 01, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   Zaki sahib, is this from a book by Salman Rashid(sounds like that from the intro at the end)? and is it availabe?


Name: Javed Zaki - February 01, 2002
E-mail: zakimoha@pilot.msu.edu
Comments:   Salan Rashid captures the splendours of Gujranwala, which once was a landmark on the crossroads of history. ---------------------------------------------------------- When Sher Shah Suri defeated and ousted Humayun, the second Mughal emperor, he destroyed the town of Saidpur - an action that was perhaps triggered by the residents' show of loyalty for the Mughals. In its place he ordered the building of a new settlement to the south-east of the older site, this town he called Shergarh after himself. But Sher Shah Suri was arrested in his career by an explosion outside the battlements of the fort of Kalanjar and within twelve years of his death his empire had weakened sufficiently to allow Humayun to return to reclaim his father's kingdom. The Afghan garrison of Shergarh resisted the Mughals and a long siege ensued under the command of Emin Beg, one of Humayun's foremost generals. Driven to hunger by the cutting off of supplies, the Afghans eventually submitted and the town that Sher Shah Suri had built to immortalize his name was put to the torch. Today only a windswept mound answers to the name of that town where particularly heavy rainstorms still sometimes turn up coins and other artefacts of the Suri reign. Within six months of regaining his father's empire Humayun died as he was coming down the stairs of his library (where, incidentally, he was not reading but flying his pigeons! Interestingly enough this building, the Sher Mandal, had been built by his old adversary, Sher Shah Suri), and the empire fell to the young Akbar. It was during his reign that the general Emin Beg was ordered to restore the old town of Saidpur, and true to form the new settlement was named Eminabad. A few years later - in 1610 - William Finch, a peripatetic English trader, mentioned Eminabade (sic) as being 18 cos from Lahore and that it was a "faire city". That is history, or whatever one can piece together from the few fragmentary references available. Legend, however, attributes the name of Eminabad to Amina, the wet nurse of Feroz Shah (c 14th century AD) or bases it on the word Amn (peace). The Grand Trunk Road passed by Eminabad on its way to Wahndo, Kali Suba and onwards to Amritsar and as it was a major town in this area, the Moghuls made it a pargannah in the province of Lahore. Surrounded by rich and fertile farmlands it seems to have thrived well and paid a handsome amount in yearly taxes (Rs900,000) to the Mughal court. Anarchy followed the death of Aurangzeb Alamgir and in the year 1760 the Mughal governor of Eminabad was dispossessed by Sardar Charrat Singh, the grandfather of Maharaja Ranjit Singh. From then on it remained with the Sukerchakia misl ruling from Gujranwala. Maharaja Ranjit Singh on assuming power gave the town as jagir to Raja Dhyan Singh of Jammu and for several decades after that the prime ministers for the state of Kashmir came from the rich Hindu families of Eminabad. The rich and magnificent havelis that the families of the diwans built are symbolic of their artistic refinement and aesthetic sense and also testify to their deep-seated desire to live in a surrounding of elegance and beauty: for them functionability and beauty were inseparable. In Mohallah Havelian one can see three or four storeyed buildings with facades that simply dazzle the eye. There are large bay windows with intricately carved jharokas, multi cusped and plain arches decorated with cut bricks and stucco work, doors profusely carved to show the gods and goddesses of the Vedic pantheon and best of all are the facades themselves, painted to the point of saturation with flowing vines, multicoloured flowers of every description possible and platters full of the fruits of Kashmir and Kandhar. The interiors were faithfully built in the traditional style of haveli architecture with the main doorway leading into the deori (foyer) which led into the central atrium that was open to the sky. This was surrounded on one side by rooms that were utilitarian in nature, i.e., kitchen, store, toilets, etc while the other two sides were occupied by the sitting room and a couple of bedrooms. On one side was the stairway that led to the rooms on the upper floors. All this is still there to be seen in Eminabad but the sight will doubtlessly break the hearts of her erstwhile sons or, for that matter, of anyone else who cares, for these crumbling reminders of their cultivated taste are now inhabited by the town's surrogate children who arrived here to take over what was evacuee property after the holocaust of 1947. To them these were possessions easily acquired in exchange for some untruths of the 'immense wealth' they had been forced to abandon in India. They were devoid of any love for the land and the culture that belonged to it, and therefore without any feeling for what was now theirs. Sadly, in the last 44 years these magnificent mansions have been heartlessly allowed to waste away - never has a hand moved to preserve them. No sleep was lost if a priceless fresco was ruined by the elements or if a portion of an intricate jharoka fell off. To the surrogate sons of Eminabad this does not matter in the least for when the whole building is finally declared dangerous by the authorities they will simply claim properties elsewhere and move on. They only stand to gain from the destruction of the culture of Eminabad. Mohallah Havelian that must have been an enviable address in the nineteenth century is sadly decrepit. Interestingly, I remarked to one such "refugee", as he still called himself, (not, however, in Eminabad but in Alipur Chattha) if it would do him any good to care for the house that had provided him and his family shelter for the last almost half century. In response he patted his fat paunch and said if he only had time enough to fill that he was thankful to Allah, and could not be bothered about looking after the house. Surely it is not only a matter of simple existence it is much more than that: it is an insatiable greed to have more, for such are the dictates of an acquisitive society. Most of Eminabad is even today constructed from the thin, narrow tiles that were used in mediaeval India and have been cannibalized from older buildings. It is not unusual to see a modern brick wall growing onto one built perhaps almost two hundred years ago. Amid the coarse cemented structures of today it is not impossible to come upon a profusely carved door here or a multi cusped arch there - the town is an intriguing admixture of the ancient and the modern. Once there must have been a protective wall around the town now only one gate remains that leads into a crowded, narrow bazaar. Like the town this bazaar, too, is a victim of changing times: in the 1880s the new railway line between Lahore and Rawalpindi was laid some three miles to the west of Eminabad. The Grand Trunk Road naturally aligned itself with the new railway and from then onward history bypassed the once important town. Salman Rashid, a fellow of the Royal Geographical Society, is a travel writer who has visited all parts of Pakistan and written about them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Excerpts from Gujranwala: the glory that was By Salman Rashid


Name: Zahra - January 31, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   My earlier question on the reality of pleasure and pain came back to me with a thought. Just like everything in life has its opposite, similarly human emotions hold similar value for both happiness and sadness. Just like we like to chersih the happiness, uplifting tune, optimism in one song; we can and will appreciate the sadness, slow tune, pessimism at times in other songs. Why? Because these emotions expressed in any musical tune or lyrical ballad will resonate with what we, being humans, feel and think. Theek? So, a song that can capture both moods, is in fact, a more balanced song than any other.


Name: Zahra - January 31, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   My earlier question on the reality of pleasure and pain came back to me with a thought. Just like everything in life has its opposite, similarly human emotions hold similar value for both happiness and sadness. Just like we like to chersih the happiness, uplifting tune, optimism in one song; we can and will appreciate the sadness, slow tune, pessimism at times in other songs. Why? Because these emotions expressed in any musical tune or lyrical ballad will resonate with what we, being humans, feel and think. Theek? So, a song that can capture both moods, is in fact, a more balanced song than any other.


Name: Zahra - January 31, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Hardeep: I think Dr. Ejaz would be the most appropriate person to address your concerns. Just my thought.


Name: Sameer - January 31, 2002
E-mail: jbsameer@yahoo.com
Comments:   There is a good article, titled "Return to the Punjab" by Kulmeet Singh in the current edition of The Friday Times. Either go to www.dawn-usa.com and scroll down to The Friday Times or directly excess from www.thefridaytimes.com

This week's issue also has some other good articles about politics in Pakistan, by Khaled Ahmed, Ejaz Haider and Aqil Shah.

Musharraf is basking in the limelight of international attention lately. A pampered dictator could be very dangerous and irrational if allowed free hand to make or change laws with just one stroke of the pen. He has been changing laws and constitution left and right. Lets hope he does not divide Punjab into three as many non-Punjabis in Pakistan want.


Name: Hardeep Dheensa - January 31, 2002
E-mail: Jullandhur@aol.com
Location: Wolverhampton,      U.K.
Comments:   This was originally sent to Safir Ji as a E-Mail, I would be grateful if any of the fellow readers could input something. Thank You. Dear Safir Ji, Kiddah. Congratulations on the continual growth of your great web-site. Rab da Kirpa/Faizal nal. I was wondering if you could give a little information. I was reading Dr. Tariq Rehman's essay on Pre-Islamic Indic languages and it got me thinking of the Eytomolgy of basic words. He citied the words "Mukh" and "Phul" as to two "foreign words" in Sanskrit. Firstly I was wondering if Dr. Tariq Rehman (or any other) had more info. on this, if they could mail it to me. Secondly if anyone could explain etymology between these words found both in SANSKRIT and PERSIAN (FARSI): Sthan/Stan- Place, Country Bisram/Aram- Peace Bhum/Bum- Land Nama/Namah- Chornicle Syat/Sheyet- Perhaps Lakshan/Nishan- Mark Apadyah/Ayah- Nurse Sanyas/Sinias- Knowledge Sar or Sir/Sar- Head Antar/Andhar- Inside Dur/Dur- Far (?) Dwar/Duar- Door Bandh/Band- Fasten, Tie Vastra/bastar- clothing Sveyt/Sufayd- White Apshuch/Afsos- Sorrow, Regret Garisham/Garam- Summer Padam/Padam- Lotus Pad or Pair/Pair- Foot/Feet Himsa/Hamesha- Forever These are just a few I know, I'm sure there are more. Thirdly the etymology of these words used in PANJABI: An- Suffix denoting WITHOUT (A in SANSKRIT) Aur- And Bhi (Bi, Vi, Wi)- Bich (Vich, Wich)- Within Je- If Le- For Pe- By, Upon Re- Stay Ki- Of (As Di- Curious as found in some Papa Farid Ji poetry) Ka- Of (As Da) Is- This Jis- Which? Tis- That? Kis- Who? Vaise- Likewise (?) Wale (Vale)- Suffix denoting OF THAT. Chor- Thief Jan- Or Fourtly what dialect is this Sloak of Papa Faird Ji: "farid chint khatola van dukh birha vachhavan lef, ih hamara jiwana tu sahib sache vekh" (Bhagat Farid Ji, Sloak, 35, Pavitar Guru Granth Ji, Pg. 1379). I think it's Multani, not sure. Also the word Hamara is interesting, does this indicate that originally it was a PANJABI word? Cause I know the words HAM (HUM) TAM (TUM) are SANSKRIT WORDS. Fiftly I have a PANJABI (Dial:MULTANI) DIRECTORY (It's in GURMUKHI-ROMAN, written by BHAI MAYA SINGH and was the first of it's kind way back in the 1800's- Ferhangan da Raj) and under it's EYTMOLOGY of words (A.) = Arabic, (H.)- Hindi (P.)- Persian (S.)- Sanskrit and any others written. But it has (K.) for some words and I can't seem to work it out I think they're HINDI words- Words like IBHAN, MUJHE, TUJHE are marked as (K.) words- but I can't seem to work out what (K.) means. Any ideas? I know there are a lot of questions there, but I would Lakh-Lakh Grateful if you could help me. Dhannivaad.


Name: Zahra - January 31, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   I have a question: why is there pain with/in all the uplifting songs? Kyoun? Vajah? Can anyone please explain that? Thank you.


Name: Saeed Farani - January 31, 2002
E-mail: saeedfarani@hotmail.com
Comments:   Dear Friends, Punjabi is lucky in one way that it got so many singers (its daughters and sons) who often sing in it and with their melodious voices Punjabi is surviving otherwise the attacks from the enemies are so sever that it could hardly exist. I appreciate the beautiful lady voices of Noor Jehan, ReshmaaN, Shazia Manzoor and newely wonderful voice of Nasibo Laal. I enjoyed her new very beautiful song "shaamaaN pey giyaaN" it is full of life and pain. best wishes.


Name: Bali K Deol - January 29, 2002
E-mail: swaraj@shaw.ca
Comments:   Thanks Syma, Aside from Alam Lohar, I played Shazia Manzoor, Khalil Haider, and a little Nusrat, I believe that they are all Pakistani, but aside from the Indian/Pakistani tags, aren't they all just great Punjabi singers? Thanks for the very nice email you sent me. May all your nights be sleepless, at least you'll be listening :-)


Name: Syma Ali - January 29, 2002
E-mail: syma_ali25@yahoo.com
Location: Lahore,      USA
Comments:   Ok, i say sorry and correct names: my name: Syma, not Syama - and your name Bali K Deol, not Doel - sorry.


Name: Syama Ali - January 29, 2002
E-mail: syma_ali25@yahoo.com
Location: Lahore,      Pakistan
Comments:   Hey, Bali Doel, nice poem. thanks for sharing. what is meaning of last word in fourth line 'niti'? heard your radio yeterday during a sleepless night. it was great. all indian singers except one song by alam lohar. put some pakistani singers on too. bye


Name: SD Khokhar - January 29, 2002
E-mail: silasd@agsimpson.com
My URL:
Location: hamilton,      canada
Comments:   Does anyone have a picture of Jhara pahelvan that they could e-mail to me. Thanks


Name: Bali K Deol - January 28, 2002
E-mail: swaraj@shaw.ca
Comments:   Hello everyone, I figure that everyone here a maa boli da sevak, thought you might all enjoy this. Its wriiten by Kaka Gill

. MaN Boli Da Sewak

Ajj koi chotta munda bhukha roia
Usdi maN da dudh ajj khatta hoia
Usdi maN ne kall toN French bolni shuru kiti
Us chotte munde di sari mit gai niti
Hun us nu pata nahiN uh bole French jaN Punjabi
Per baag de wich sarE phul aje vi Gulabi
Uh maN nu chaddE jaN bhukha mar jae
WicharE chotte jihE nu samaj na aye
Shaid Rab nu hi ustE taras jiha aia
Khatte dudh nal bachE nu bukhar uttar aia
Uh paar ho gia kuch he palan ander mahi
Oh Punjabi bhasha da chotta jiha sipahi
Hun usdi maN Paris wich francaN piche wikdi
Oh chotte bache di hassi surgaN wich na rukdi
Kihra hun khush hai jionda jaN maria
Dosto main tuhade kol ih swal hai karia
KadE kaN we Hans baneN kisene dekhe
Sadi boli di rakhia sade he lekhe


Name: DullaBhatti - January 28, 2002
E-mail: Dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   Gurcharan, I know which video you are talking about...my guess is your best bet is contacting people in the Punjabi TV business. Contact your local people first, they may not have it but they may know who has it.


Name: Gursharan - January 28, 2002
E-mail: gsinghh@hotmail.com
Location: Reston, va     USA
Comments:   Koi Hai Rab Da Piara jo meri talash wich meri imdaad karey. I am trying to find the Video of SHIV BATALVI'S only appearence. it is about minute and a half and believe to be recorded either in England or Canada. It was telecast on some punjabi programme from toranto,canada in the early 90's


Name: hamid - January 26, 2002
E-mail: hamid@notendo.com
Location: Lahore, punjab     pakistan
Comments:   well i am here first time and enjoy the site. any one who can extend helping hand to me for better understanding of punjabi reading and specialy hear waris shah. as i am poor in reading and understanding some words. Nice to be here with all of you.


Name: Saeed Farani - January 26, 2002
E-mail: saeedfarani@hotmail.com
Location: RAWALPINDI, Punjab     Pakistan
Comments:   Dear Dulla Bhatti, It is very nice to read the project proposal regarding Punjabi-Duniyan Broadcasting Corp.(PBC). Certainly, it will promote Punjabi language throughout the whole world among Punjabies. They will also be united through such very effective motions. Please accept my heartiest congratulations.


Name: Zahra - January 26, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   "Rejection like this is not the path of any Sufi or Guru." Mahmud Faheem: I came across this statement in one of your recent posts. I understand as well as do not understand what you meant. The part I understand is clear to me; the one I do not understand is not clear to me. Now, could you please give the reference to the context for this argument? Thanks :)


Name: Zahra - January 26, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Sajid: You have a legit question, but somehow you forgot to type the reason for your question. Why do you want to know? What will you do after knowing? Would it make any difference in your life? Would you make any difference by knowing the reasons? Is it just a question for the sake of knowledge or a question for the sake of question? These were the thoughts that came to my mind. I have a number of pointers that I can jot down, but I need to know the background behind your question. That will enable me to cater the answer appropriately to your inquiry. Also, remember, if you do not clarify your inquiry you are listening to various perceptions who may not address what you want to learn. But then, that goes back to my thought..is it a question for the heck of it or ...?

The story of the kind-hearted farmer has not come to an end. There is a connection in that story amongst all the following elements:heart, soil, land, giving back to your neighborhood and community, mind ... ... ... ...In short, a weaver can weave and continue to weave a tale...but there is much more to that. As this weaver does not have enough time, therefore she would just give out the answer without creating many webs :)


Name: Bali K. Deol - January 25, 2002
E-mail: swaraj@shaw.ca
Location: Vancouver,      Canada
Comments:   Sameer, thanks very much for your encouragement. That song you really liked was by Satwinder Bugga, it reduced a few of our male listeners to tears. Funny, i wasn't even born in the Punjab, never lived there yet even in me a raises a certain melancholy. Your suggestions are welcome as are everybody else's. One by one we'll win battles, together the war! (metaphorically speaking)


Name: Sameer - January 25, 2002
E-mail: jbsameer@yahoo.com
Comments:   Bali: I got to listen to Punjabi radio today, Friday, January 25, 2002. It was a great experience, as DullaBhatti has already mentioned. I really liked your promotion of APNAorg and a song, "chhirhi wat'naN dee gal, machi seenay hulchal". Never before have I "heard triple w" in British accent, for me I always thought of it as www.

I wish you every success and please keep up the crusade on behalf of second and third generation Punjabis.

Best wishes,

Sameer


Name: Mahmud Fahim - January 24, 2002
E-mail: agsmz@yahoo.com
Location: Vienna, VA     USA
Comments:   Gen. Safdar is a Punjabi and belongs to Village Dulmiaal, Ditt. Chakwal. Zubaidah Jalal is Baluch and is Federal Education Minister of Paksitan. Similarly Dr. Shahid Amjad Chaudhry, Dr. Attiya Inayatullah, Col S K Tressler, Dr. Abdul Malik Kasi, Abbas Sarfraz Khan and Khair Mohammad Junejo are all effective Federal ministers and belongs to different provinces. Rejection like this is not the path of any Sufi or Guru.


Name: Sameer - January 24, 2002
E-mail: jbsameer@yahoo.com
Location: New York,      USA
Comments:   Sajid and Saeed Faeani: Here are five reasons, in my honest opinion, which have contributed most to the poor literacy level in Pakistan.

1. Lower Status of Women: It is common malaise, countries from Morocco to Indonesia suffer while their non-Muslim neighbors have better literacy levels. I can go on describing how it effects are felt in higher population growth rate and male machismo and jingoistic policies.

2. Extension of Two Nation Theory: One world Kashmir says it all. According to some estimates, it has cost us about 35 billion dollars during the last 54 years with zilch outcome. India also shares this blame but being a large country and bigger economy they are much better to absorb the cost of their Kashmir policies. Other than Kashmir, it gives credence to religious and Islamists and even fundamentalists to claim more loyal to Pakistan than liberals and seculars.

3. Misplaced Priorities: The income at personal as well as national level is irrationally spent. At national level, excessive military spending resulting from regular military interventions in the internal affairs and beating the drums of animosity from India with the help of mullah and media propaganda, manufacturing consent in this direction. It is another story that they have always failed in protecting Pakistan (Bangladesh, Siachen etc.). At individual level, Hajj and Qurbani alone cost more than a billion dollars per year, decreasing the saving rates and spending in fruitful causes. The benefits of such spending are supposed to be materialized in distant future , after death.

4. Strong Center: In the name of unity and in the interests of highly centralized military commands, the rights of native cultures and people have been denied. In response people have to spent their energies trying to gain their cultural rights, which otherwise would have been spent in achieving progress in many fields including literacy.

5. Corruption/ Feudalism/ Tribalism: Much has been written on this topic. All I can say is that building institutions of democracy would decrease their influence. We need repeated elections not repeated military takeovers to tackle these problems.

IS MUSHARRAF A PUNJABI HATER?? I wanted to bring to attention one of the latest developments in Pakistan. The military junta has announced to add seats from tribal areas (FATA) to NWFP assembly in the next elections. Tribal areas should have been included in NWFP before asigning seats for them. This is federally administered area and not NWFP right now. It will increase the proportion of Pushtu speaking in the assembly in comparison to Hindko or Punjabi speaking population of the province. Until recently both groups were evenly matched and therefore the bills to make Pushtu provincial language and changing name of NWFP to Pukhtunkhwa could not pass in provincial assembly. In order to keep Nawaz and Bhutto out, Musharraf has been cultivating relations with ANP, MQM and other elements opposed to NS and BB. However, this is not the only reason in my opinion. He has been acting as a Punjabi hater from day one. He imposed a duffer retired general, Safdar, as governor who was a Punjabi from NWFP and not from Punjab. The guy was absolutely inept in running the province with hardly ever going out of Lahore during his two years. Then he imposed another Kashmiri general from the army day after his retirement from the Army. All the recent promotions in the military as well as all the important positions in his cabinet are filled with non-Punjabis, particularly Mohajirs, except for one stupid dummy named Sattar. The governor of State Bank, Finance Minister, Education Minister, Commerce Minister, Interior Ministers are all Mohajirs. I have no doubt in my mind that Musharraf hates Punjabi and Punjab like most of “Aslaf Mohajirs” (Aslaf is a mutually exclusive group of mohajirs who trace their identity to Arabs, especially the family and friends of Mohammed). Do not expect any help from Musharraf and his coterie in promotion of Punjabi culture!

Thanks to the strength of Punjabi culture, it is seeping into neighboring areas, national media and entertainment industries of India and Pakistan. Punjabis are becoming more successful and I am sure in 100 years or sooner they will leave neighboring cultures much behind in progress and prosperity with neighbors accepting more and more of Punjabi culture. Musharraf may be a temporary setback, he can not stop it from happening.


Name: Dullabhatti - January 24, 2002
E-mail: dullbhatti47@yahoo.com
Location: San Jose, CA     USA
Comments:   Punjabi Duniyan - a worldwide Punjabi radio
- Project Proposal

Punjabi-Duniyan Broadcasting Corp.(PBC) shall be a US registered Corp. that will run a Network of Radio Broadcasting in Punjabi language throughout the whole world. It shall be made up of Affiliates and Partners and shall be run by a central Board of Directors. Board of directors and the Chairperson shall be elected by the Affiliates and Partners. Following shall be the key features of PBC, its operations and its objectives: 1. PBC, and its Affiliates and Partners, will write, produce and broadcast audio programs in Punjabi (90%) and other languages(10%) only.
2. Main purpose of every program shall be:
- To promote and enhance Punjabi language
- To promote good aspects of the Punjabi culture and discourage, denounce and reform the bad aspects.
- Religious Programming shall be included to the minimum possible,like; morning recitals, azaan,original bhagat and sufi baani only. In no case any Affiliate or Partner shall be allowed to broadcast religious commentary or discussions under PBC.
- To promote tolerance,understanding, and secular traditions.
- To deliver rich entertainment based on the core values of Punjabi culture.
- To deliver news and reports covering the events and happenings in the Punjabi world or influencing/concerning the Punjabi people in any way, shape or form.

3. The radio will be broadcasted in local centers of Punjabi population on the radio waves(could be different radio waves in different geographical locations). These shall be called Local Stations(LS).

4. Affiliates and Partners shall produce programs based on the above guidelines and broadcast at their LS while the same shall be broadcast from other LSs around the globe.

5. All LSs shall have certain time spans dedicated to local broadcasts only.

6. All of the above programming shall be broadcast live on Internet for people who are not covered by LSs. During the time LSs are broadcasting local programming, Internet can broadcast some repeat programming from the past or some local programming of interest.

7. Affiliates and Partners, will be free to book their own advertisements for the local broadcasts but for global broadcasts, advertisements shall be selected and controlled by the PBC's global service. LS's shall get their share of the revenues(less PBC overhead) based on their local listener ship.

8. PBC shall encourage and rely on Punjabi individual artists and writers to produce 30 min to 2 hour segments of programming and sell its broadcasts to PBC as freelancers.

9. Advertisements and promotions shall not include any advertisements of Jyotishis, Babas, Sai Babas, Hakeems, Get rich quick schemes or any other product or person PBC board thinks is not good for Punjabi audience.

10. PBC shall be free of any and all government influence and control. Govt. funding shall be accepted only if no strings attached.

11. PBC shall produce educational programming for Punjabi language, household issues, child care, adult care etc.
Undersigned by
DullaBhatti
A dreamer.


Name: DullaBhatti - January 24, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   Hey guys thanks for the link to Punjabi Radio by Bali...I was to propose that this morning but you are quick. Good job.
Listening music on CD player is different than listening it live from radio. On your player, you know what the next song is and usually it is the same singer as the previous song so nothing unexpected about it but on radio you don't know what is the next song and when it is one of your favourites you enjoy it much better than the player due to this shock or unexpected impact.


Name: Gursharan Bha - January 24, 2002
E-mail: gsinghh@hotmail.com
Location: Reston, va     USA
Comments:   Hello Every Body Kaffi time ton es discussion forum nu pad reha haan. meri ik talash hai. Ik time te toranto canada ton kise punjabi program te Shiv Batalvi di Video vikhai gai si. mere khyaal naal 1 1/2 ya 2 minute di si. je kisey kol oh recording hai te mehrbaani karke mainu os di ik copy mil jaave. esey AAS vich P.S. you can email me so I can contact you.


Name: Saeed Farani - January 24, 2002
E-mail: saeedfarani@hotmail.com
Location: Rawalpindi, Punjab     Pakistan
Comments:   Dear Sajid, First of all you must not forget the main reason behind this miserable literacy rate in Pakistan ie teaching in alien languages. You see the literacy rate among Urdu speaking community in Pakistan ie very high. Then education never has been our priority. It is very unfortunte that no any leader of this country could manage this very simple mode of development. Masses also could not follow such great path of human valuable asset. Then there was and is even today always stress on building mosques and poor mentality Mullahs don't realise the importance of literacy. People who went abroad and earned money they also found happiness (dummy) in building Mosques, saints tombs or funding madrassas so these all were signs against literacy or Roshan Khiayali. And result is TORA BORA. Feudals also were against education ie awareness among the masses. Illiterate people are very easy to rule so all the corners who have been ruling this country never ever encourage this revolutionary idea. The education which is being imparted is also full of defficiencies. Unfortunately, no any government could realise the importance of this great human asset 15o million dungers were suited to the lords of this country. Pak sar zameen shad bad. I hope this present regime is taking some good steps toward this neglected sector.


Name: S.A.Sajid - January 24, 2002
E-mail: sajidamjad@hotmail.com
My URL: http://angelfire.com/home/sajidamjad/index.htm
Location: islamabad,      Pakistan
Comments:   Here is a question please answer me. "What are the five reasons of low literacy rate in Pakistan." Best Regards Sajid Islamabad(Pakistan)


Name: suman - January 23, 2002
E-mail: skashy@yahoo.com
Comments:   jagjit ji. enjoyed reading your poem - the originality of thought in contemporizing an old story, as well as the modern usage of language, was refreshing. hope to read more of your work.

Does anybody have information about, and examples of, "lamme (lambe) geet"? Would really like to record some.


Name: DullaBhatti - January 22, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Location: San Jose,      USA
Comments:   Rammah ji,I must say I am really flattered by your comments and very thankful to Bali ji for making that possible. Isn't this wonderful that all of us are at different locations and still were able to enjoy this poem posted, read and broadcasted in a period of couple of days. That is great. Bali ji, I am also on air once in a while in California although I wish I had a voice to match my sidhi saadhi miThi Majhi paindoo Punjabi.:-)


Name: Safir Rammah - January 22, 2002
E-mail: rammah@apnaorg.com
Location: Fairfax, Va     USA
Comments:   Dear Jagjit (Dullah Bhatti): I was listening to 96.1 FM today when Bali Jee read your poem on the radio in her Punjabi program from Vancouver, BC. I can tell you that it sounded so much better in her charming Punjabi accent ... exquisite; a treat to listen to - both the poem and the narration.


Name: DullaBhatti - January 22, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   Bali ji, You don't have to ask for it...it is usually understood that anyone can quote it or use it. It is nice if one can give the credit by mentioning name..but I am not worried about that either...chhupae rehan di chah te chhupp tur jaan di. Zakki and Sameer, thanks a lot for hausla afzayee.


Name: aamir riaz - January 22, 2002
E-mail: aamirriaz@hotmail.com
Location: lahore, punjab     pakistan
Comments:   is there any website about the history of the punjab


Name: Sameer - January 22, 2002
E-mail: jbsameer@yahoo.com
Comments:   Dear Jagjit (DullaBhatti): That was a beautiful poem. Javed Zaki's poetry is also very good. Most important thing is that each creation must be liked by the creator first.

In this poem, I feel very different metaphors than Waris Shah (let's not start that discussion all over again). What I see in Heer in this poem is actually the plight of Punjabi woman. Ranjha is sort of emancipation. She is hoping for emancipation after fully realizing the culprits, who have been deciding, without being asked, her fate and her status in the society. She can think but can not speak out. The sadness of Heer is archetypal of general status of women in the society. Just a personal opinion!!!


Name: Javed Zaki - January 22, 2002
E-mail: zakimoha@pilot.msu.edu
Comments:   Dear Farani! A collection of my panjabi poems, kaafis and geets (titled "Kangaan") has already been published from both sides of the punjab (Shahmukhi and Gurmukhi). As I have been told enough copies of he book (Shahmukhi) were donated to 'Kitaab Trinjan", Lahore. I am working on two projects at this time; One trying to complete my 2nd book of punjabi poems and geets, and second, a collection of panjabi short stories. Also, I have completed rough work of a panjabi novel OR drama (probably, a T.V. serial). The theme involves 'contract labor, 'class conflict' and 'gender differentiation'.................. Jugjit Ji! Wah..Wah... Val maza aaya tohaadi nazam paRh ke. JewNde ravoo te mojaaN maano. Rub Raakhha.


Name: M.J. - January 22, 2002
E-mail: t_d_singh@yahoo.com
My URL:
Location: Punjab, CA     USA
Comments:   Just a few comments about the music section of this web-site. First off, the selection is amazing and it's nice to see a good mix of all types of Punjabi music. About the "sufi music from east punjab". I have a problem with that. Why "East"? Punjab is Punjab. Isn't this organization made to promote Punjabi culture as a whole? Then why separate the 5 portions of punjab? Second, isn't "kya hal sunnawan dil da, koi mehran raz nahin milda" by Baba Ghulam Farid? I see that song in the section under Baba Shah Hussein. Maybe someone could clarify this for me. Thank you


Name: Bali K Deo - January 21, 2002
E-mail: swaraj@shaw.ca
Comments:   Hello Jagjit Veer, I loved your poem. With your permission I would like to read it on my radio show. Please let me know.


Name: Jagjit Sandhu - January 21, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Location: San Jose, CA     USA
Comments:   Dear Zaki sahib, Farani, Sameer, Rammah and others here is one of my poems that is published this month in a Punjabi magazine and I recited it last night at the annual function of Punjabi Sahit Sabha, California.  The idea certainly got planted in my mind from some discussions about Heer and Waris Shah on this board.

Heer-Punjab

main nimaani dharat Punjaban, jiyon Ranjhan di Heer.
babul Choochak dhakka keeta, hoi aan leero leer.

sir te chhaaye zehri badal, te pairan wich zanzeer.
Satluj Jehlum lahoo piyaase, mere amman jaaye veer.

Kaidon chaachay kehar kamayea, khichi jadon lakeer.
Gur Arjun ton iyon vichhray phir mere Mian Meer1.

vehrhay ne matrayean maavan, karsan zulam akheer.
jeebhay zandra, ann pakaawan, nainon tapkay neer.

'mullah'2 mainu fatway chaarhe, 'pandit'3 kare taqreer.
'bhaiyean'4 aisee layee kalaawe5, jidan howan jageer.

main tatrhi da kehrha bailee te ki meri taqdeer.
panj aaban di laad ludakki ujj ughan jand kareer.

'Waris'6 mere akhan mundi7, baithe gunni guheer8.
na koi hauka, haal duhai, na haye koi peerh.

bauhrhi ve kitton aawe Ranjha, kann liyaave cheer.
main Saidde de boohe baithee, ho gai aan dilgeer.

main nimaani dharat Punjaban jiyon Ranjhan di Heer.
bauhrhi ve kitton aawe Ranjha aawe ban faqeer.
main Ranjhan di Heer.

1:   Mian Meer of Lahore, a sufi saint and friend of Guru Arjun layed the
      foundation stone of Golden Temple in Amritsar.
2, 3, 4:   Muslim, Hindu and Sikh fanatics.
5:   embracing someone and giving shelter
6:   Waris Shah. Waris mere = writers of today
7:   akhan mundi = closing ones eyes.
8:   gunni = one with wisdom and intellect, guheer = store, gunni guheer=treaures of wisdom
 


Name: Anna - January 21, 2002
E-mail: anna@nomail.com
Comments:   Zahra, " I start my story and i finish it ------" Accha Bhen, lagi reh pher aarrhe! Changi wehle wele kam shurhu kitta lagda! Rab tuhada bhala kare te naal oona da vi jinna nu eh kahaani parhni peh rahi hai:)


Name: Saeed Farani - January 21, 2002
E-mail: saeedfarani@hotmail.com
Comments:   Dear Dr. Zaki, I liked your poems and I hope such kind of poetry will also be liked by many other Punjabi lovers. I wish I could read your poetry in the form of book and I could present it to some of my friends here. Did you think about such idea or you already got your book published. I am pleased to help you if it is not in published form. Try to also translate it into English. Now, we need such bi-lingual books of Punjabi which also carry English translation on the other page. Safeer Bhai Jee, try to include Dr. Zaki's poetry maximum in this site. His mixture of ideas and wordings is wonderful.


Name: Saeed Farani - January 21, 2002
E-mail: saeedfarani@hotmail.com
Comments:   Dear Dr. Zaki, I liked your poems and I hope such kind of poetry will also be like by many Punjabi lovers. I wish I could read your poetry in the form of book. You thought about such idea or you already have book in published form. Safeer Bhai Jee, try to include Dr. Zaki's poetry maximum. His mixture of ideas and wordings is wonderful.


Name: Zahra - January 20, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   ....:) ...I was absent for a day or two and the story started proceeding on its own...Hmmm...Just to set the records straight once again: I start my story and I end it. I do not tolerate intervention! Constructive criticism is certainly taken with amusement. Again, you are "NOT" obligated to read, dear readers. I am forced to write as that's my nature. The story will go on...This forum should not wait to learn what happens next...THE SHOW MUST GO ON! There are many others who have thoughts, points, ideas and views that require attention, please concentrate on those. Rest Later,


Name: suman - January 18, 2002
E-mail: skashy@yahoo.com
Comments:   Farmer ji. What an exciting and interesting end to a dull and condescending story.


Name: A Farmer - January 18, 2002
E-mail: a_farmer@farmer.com
Comments:   Zarhra: may i complete your story to save you from trouble. you already done enough for us. i start from the meeting between the district head and the 5-pass pass farmer:

“Part II: The adamant farmer entered the office of the district head. He was routed to the waiting room. In the waiting room, he prepared his points once again. He was quite early and had the opportunity to revisit his thoughts. As his meeting began, he very firmly but humbly stated his plea. The division head listened patiently ..” and then

the division head took out a magic wand and murmured some strange arabic sounding words and then told the farmer that his petition has been approved. and lo and behold, magically a huge change took place in the farmer’s village: a nice 4-lane road from the nearest major city to the village; electricity, telephone, clean water through pipes and indoor plumbing, underground sewer pipes, high-speed internet access, a free pc, free tv and cable tv connection with many farming related channels for every house in the village. all kacha homes were converted to brick and mortar in the village and a fully-equipped hospital, primary and high schools and a college each for girls and boys and more.

the news of this miraculous change reached all corners of the world and agriculture/village development and other experts rushed to the farmer’s village. senior officials of world bank and imf were there. in a large press conference the farmer was asked the one question that was on the mind of all these experts, “how in the world did you do it?”

the farmer smiled and answered “all credit goes to zahra jee. she is the genius mind behind this. and now for all the dumb, stupid, illiterate farmers of the world (he also added 20 heavy duty claims of extra-everything relations with their three generation of relatives that i am omitting), and then said, i have just one message for your thick heads, the message that i got from zahra Jee: ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS ASK – GET IT? you (another 20 of the same) – ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS ASK!!!

the experts hung their heads in shame. they are now all trying to understand how they couldn’t come up with this brilliant but simple solution.

End of the story.


Name: DullaBhatti - January 18, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   What a story!! all these ups and downs, the drama, the deception, the hope and tragedy..and above all the suspense..what a roller coaster:-). I admit this could be a good story for 3rd grade text book giving the kids some hope to live and showing them how good, nice and helpful the Government is....but for rest of us it is meaningless...First we are not 8 year olds,secondly most of us have seen the real Punjabi life at grass roots level much better than the author..or should I say Story Writer:-). Majority of the farmers with a limited land and resources available have a very limited future...with the exception of few with larger farms who can try different crops and techniques to show that they can do better. but an average farmer with few acres of land who can't even afford modern tools and techniques can't do much in that limited environment no matter how enthusiastic he is. Only good thing he can do is that help his next generation get out of that farm. and here in author's tradition I will thank my father and mother a million times. Unfortunately most of them can't even have enough resources to be able to do that.

He knows best how to deal with his day to day problems. The fact that he has not been able to send his kids to American universities and we have not read a book written by him on "how to be a successful farmer" "how to be millionaire with a 5 acre farm" should not be held against him. We all conveniently forget that it is this lazy Punjabi farmer who got rid of hunger from the sub-continent. He has worked very hard for the last 4 generations to feed the sub-continent but in this process what he has achieved is that his grandfathers 80 acre land is now 4 acre each for his sons. It was this Punjabi agro scientist Dr. Gurdev Khush who devised new breeds of rice which increased rice yield many folds not only for Punjab but rest of the wrold too feeding billions of people.
Here is a page on this Punjabi farmer...
A Tribute to a lazy Punjabi Farmer
Use the 4 arrows at the top of the page to surf through this web site.


Name: Zahra - January 18, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Dear Readers:
I sense some restlessness. Please relax. I cannot leak out any info on what next. You are not obligated to read if you are going crazy. Just go and do something else. It's the same for me as well. I do not care to read everything and everyone. It's a waste of my time. Also, just to set the records straight: This story will continue as long as the writer wants to continue. The writer(that's me)cares less who reads and who discards her story. OK! Take Care, readers :)

Sermon II: It would be the death of a community and culture when everyone starts thinking and acting alike.

Someone had mentioned their thoughts on Baesakhi...My "folk-story" never had the intent to be disrespectful. If anyone got offended, I apologize. I never knew that there was a link with Guru Nanak Jee as well. That's interesting to know. I am glad that my creative thought made me learn about this aspect. Now, I plan to write another write-up on life and the little doors it opens at each stage and step for us to learn about our own culture that we aren't well aware of. In that respect, moderation can be the hardest step. Being an extremist in anyway or shape may lead one to go on extreme ends of the pendulum; whereas, being in the middle would have to have one well acquainted with both sides in some respects. Just some points.


Name: bawa - January 18, 2002
E-mail: bnanno@altavista.com
Location: Leioa,      Spain
Comments:   Dear Fahim Sahib, This is a contribution to comments to promoting Punjabi. But first, to answer your question about the age of the language. It is now a well-reaearched fact that Punjabi is a language directly derived from Vedic, Keay traces it back to 1000 BC, the more modern form being acquired between 9th - 11th century AD. Punjabi Poetry from that era includes for instance, Jo ghar tyag kahave jogi, Ghar wasi ko kahe jo bhogi, Antar bhav na parkhe jogi Gorakh bole moorakh sogi Words like "rijhya", "ulta", "pulta", etc. were already in use in that time. Riddles of the period, include Ik raat aape baithi Phulan di sej khilar Aaya ohda gharwala Oh gai udari mar. Proverbs: Jeehdi kothi daane Ohde kamle vi siane. As for the Gurmukhi script, I quote Dr. S S Sekhon and Dr K S Duggal "...Gurmukhi script is a misnomer. It was not devised by any Sikh guru.. Recent researches have established without any shadow of a doubt that the Punjabi language was fairly well-developed in the 12th century...a developed language with a script of its own". In fact, to sum up long researches in a line, Gurmukhi was used and standardised or perfected by the Gurus, because it was a more local script.." Before everyone starts hurling things at me, all this work is available in in-depth research if you want to look it up. A punjabi grammar book written in 1851 observes: "It is generally believed that Guru Nanak formulated the Gurmukhi alphabets. While it maybe true that he modified some of them, the fact remains that these alphabets are very old. Out of 35, not less than 22 can be found in ancient edicts in their primordial forms and can be deciphered as such, 3 alphabets can be traced back to the 5th century BC and twelve to the 3rd century BC....As a language it is older than either Hindi or Urdu...." So, let us be proud of our ancient/current language, and promote it by using it. It is interesting that you mention about how to unite Punjabi dialects. Well, this is true of many languages, classic example of German, where the standard taught form is a completely artifical creation" Just shows it can be done, but peole in their area continue to speak their "german" as well. I happen to live in a place that has managed to successfully revive a mostly ORAL language that was well on the way to dying out i.e. Basque. It has required a lot of money but most of all hard work by vast numbers of ordinary people. Some of the ways used : homework hours after school for kids run by volunteers using the language to do homework and play games, weekend stays in Basque for kids where they do all activities outdsoor, indoor, play in the language, almost instant translation of all current popular films and books (public funding at first)but now private companies do it because people make an effort to buy the stuff, all extra activities for adults and kids like painting, or music or judo in the language. There is also an Academy of the Language that standardises the use and also has put in a lot of work to create reasonable terminology for a lot of the scientific stuff: before you think it is no problem a reminder that we are talking of a language with seven different dialects and strong supporters of their own, so that compromises have to be made in setting a standard. For Punjabi it should be easier, as we already have people talking and writing it; its getting people to use it. Bhai baut likhh ditta ik din vaste, is layee sat sri akal, khudahfis.


Name: Anna - January 18, 2002
E-mail: anna@nomail.com
Comments:   Zahra, And this story is about a farmer and that also a punjabi farmer? If the answer is Punjabi farmer then I must say that you don't know anything about punjabis and their farming etc. They don't go about using all these behaviourial analysis techniques to decide their next steps. If they have decided to do something , they simply do it on thier own if they find those in power not ready to help. This is the reason that Punjab is what it is on both sides of the border. Please finish the story fast. It is getting boring now. Say Cheeseeeeeeeee


Name: Zahra - January 17, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   The next phase of the story takes multiple scenarios into consideration.

a) A hopeful outlook
b) A proactive approach
c) A laid back attitude
d) A give-in attitude
e) A responsible approach
...


Name: Mahmud Fahim - January 17, 2002
E-mail: agsmz@yahoo.com
Comments:   Dil Khush keeta ee


Name: Punjabi Paindoo - January 17, 2002
E-mail: punjbai_paindoo23@hotmail.com
Comments:   Fahim Paa Jee: Tusseen te bare hushiar o. keewen sehaan lia e ke es board te koee kise noon naheen jandaa, naa tuseen menu jande o te naan main tuhanoon - sare e luke hoi aan - te naa e e zarooree e ke har likhan walaa pehlaan apna poora taaruf karai. badshaoo e internet e koee tuhadaa police thana naheen jithe wald falaan te sakna falaan da pata hona zaroori hoi. sare internet boardaan te alias istamaal karn dee ijaazat honde e te tuseen es board de maame o - bhara jee ede chaitee galaan kadan te na aao .. talban te sade lahee bohot wadee gaal e - te galaan sanoon we baryaan aaaundiyaan ne . paidoo jo hoi -lagdaa e koi udru noon apne thikaane te laan dee gal kare te tuhanoon bohot takleef hondee e. te paa jee e takleef hondee kithe e? chalo je koi private maamla e te rehan deyo. rab raakha.


Name: Mahmud Fahim - January 17, 2002
E-mail: agsmz@yahoo.com
Location: Vienna, VA     USA
Comments:   Apna Aap chuppha kay gal karna te Apnay aap noN paindoo v kehNan, gul samajh nahieN aiy. Talban v eho chanday san. Talban matt baanno.


Name: Punjabi Paidoo - January 17, 2002
E-mail: punjabi_paindoo23@hotmail.com
Comments:   Fahim Paa Jee: Tuseen muth rakho, chintaa na karo te rateen chaen de needer sonwo, ek wari Punjabi noon schoolaan, adaltaan te assemblian de zubaan banan da jatan te karo, badshaho eseen sare maslain naal nibar laan ge. Unj je tuhannon bahanian dee lod e te fer hor we bathaire nain. tuhanoon urdu te engraizi naal baree mohobat lagdee e. e bolian jam jam jeewen per saadi punjabi da gala naa ghutan bas ene gal ehor koi jhagra naheen. punjab de school, punjab dian adaltaan te punjab de dafter te punjab de assembly .. te punjabi zubaan .. te allah allah khair salla. tuhadee urdu te egraijee tuhanoon sawa mubarak ser te chukoo te pahwain naal sonwawo sahnoon kooee etraz naheen.


Name: Mahmud Fahim - January 17, 2002
E-mail: agsmz@yahoo.com
Location: Vienna, VA     USA
Comments:   Dear Saeed! What about the diversity of the language in Punjabi itself. The vocabulary of Pothowari, Majhee, Hindko, Saraikee, Janglee etc are very different. After introducing Punjabi as the medium of instruction, I think we will be more divided. It seems to be vey complex phenomenon. Even the Persian text doesnot able to write many major sounds of Punjabi. So what about it? Its really a pandora box. So first of all define sigularity in this matter. It's fine that Gurmukhi has almost all the sounds of Majhee, but what about the others? By the way before the birth of Gurmukhi Text(which is new born in terms of history) What was the status of Punjabi as a language, just a boli or something else???????? Regards


Name: Another Punjabi Dhagga - January 17, 2002
E-mail: sawadhagga@punjabidhaggas.com
Comments:   5 paas farmer entered his appointment in his calendar? what happened to his Palm Pilot?


Name: Zahra - January 17, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Part II: The adamant farmer entered the office of the district head. He was routed to the waiting room. In the waiting room, he prepared his points once again. He was quite early and had the opportunity to revisit his thoughts. As his meeting began, he very firmly but humbly stated his plea. The division head listened patiently, but couldn't provide a concrete yes or no response. He promised to look into the proposition but did not define how long it will take to reach that goal. The good man felt a little low, but then realized that results cannot be achieved asap. One needs to be patient to get the reward of what one sows. Just like his crop never comes out the next day. It takes its due course to go through all phases of harvest. So, he put down two weeks in his calendar diary to check back with the division head...What happened after the weeks? Please stay tuned!


Name: Bali K. Deo - January 16, 2002
E-mail: swaraj@shaw.ca
Location: Vancouver, BC     CANADA
Comments:   in response to Sawadhagga: With all due respect my brother, Baisakhi and Lohri are far from meaningless festivals. Baisakhi in particular is as important to the Sikhs as Eid is to our Muslim brothers and sisters. Baisakhi represents the auspicious occasion of the birth of the Khalsa. May both Baisakhi and Eid be celebrated in true Punjabi fashion on both sides of the border for all the centuries to come.


Name: Zahra - January 16, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Ek-Louri: By sending mass emails, you will not get any proper response. You need to craft an appropriate letter or memo and then have it signed by all the concerned beings and send it. OK! Sending mass emails or letters will make all the recommendations go to a dustbin. That's just a thought. To each their own!


Name: Zahra - January 16, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Dear Readers: Lo and Behold! Part II of my year 2002 folk story will come out shortly. Stay Tuned!


Name: Zahra - January 16, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Bushra: Also, look into the following:

http://women3rdworld.about.com.
Just a suggestion: If you want to write on any of the issues, you should write and submit to any of the links that I have provided. It's no use or I should say it's less effective to bring up such issues here. From cultural perspective they are indeed very pertinent and should be raised, dissected and mindsets ought to change but by raising them on larger forums you will have audience from a broad spectrum. Probably, you will hear back from more people with suggestions. Also, those individuals can be from any part of the world and will bring a unique suggestion or perspective. You must write on something that is close to you and you want to elaborate on that. Best Wishes.


Name: Zahra - January 16, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Bushra:
Please do checkout SouthAsian Women's Network website. You will find it very interesting. Also, I am attaching the link on a few issues that you have brought up. http://www.guardian.co.uk/pakistan/Story/0,2763,430208,00.html.


Name: Bushra Khan - January 16, 2002
E-mail: khanbushra@hotmail.com
Location: New York, NY     USA
Comments:   From a column by Khaled Ahmed in the Friday Time, Pakistan: (1) In 1999, the Federal Shariat Court abolished the old Family Law Ordinance and allowed men to practice polygamy without the permission of their first wives. In an effort to make the verdict rational, the Court said it was good for Pakistan because there were more women here than men! After that the wife of Dr Israr Ahmad, the famous Lahore cleric, said that she would not mind her husband taking another wife. (2) The Federal Ministry for Religious Affairs headed by Mr Mahmud Ghazi had sent a recommendation to the ministry of information that all songs and dances shown on PTV be banned. The ministry’s letter said that PTV was involved in emulating Indian TV channels and was showing women shaking their bodies. (3) Council for Islamic Ideology (CII) recently announced that nikah of a girl without the permission of wali (male member of family) was un-Islamic and those girls getting married of their own choice should be punished under law.(4) The other enlightened opinion of the CII was that co-education should be banned. (5) The Council for Islamic Ideology (CII) also said that women should be disallowed from appearing in ads and that only men should be used to promote products through photographs. (6) CII said that women were allowed to work as air hostesses but they should wearing burqa or hijab on board. (7) CII also recommended that no darzi (tailor) should be allowed to sew the clothes for women and that only women darzi should be used for women. (8) Federal Religion Minister Mehmud Ghazi said that the Gandhis of Pakistan were trying to raise the slogan of Punjabi to undermine the Islamic ideology of Pakistan. He said that the Punjabi Conference held in Lahore was an Indian scheme which emphasised the region at the cost of Islam.


Name: jagga jatt - January 16, 2002
E-mail: hello@aol.com
Location: punjab,      USA
Comments:   dhulla bhatti was a muslim daku??? dhulla bhatti was a rajput sardar king around lahore area who refused to give akbar his daughter and fought off the mughals


Name: Ek-Louri - January 16, 2002
E-mail: kc01@labs.com
Comments:   Originally posted by Saeed Farani on January 16, 2002 Ms. Zahra and Fahim, Sorry to mention your names in my comments. Can you people find some practical ways that how we can promote our language in Pakistani Punjab? Thanks. Simple! Add Punjabi prose and poetry to the "Urdu" text book. This will not take a lot of resources. Let's all start sending email messages to the Punjab text book board(s).


Name: Bawa - January 16, 2002
E-mail: bnanno@altavista.com
Location: Leioa,      Spain
Comments:   Dear All, Just remembered one more Lohri song...De mayee lohri, jeewae teri jorhee, khol mayee kunda jeeve tera munda, khol mayee taki, jeeve teri kakee, and if kids didn't get anything.. hukka bai hukka, eh ghar bhukha! Are there the same traditions in W. Punjab? Thank you.


Name: Saeed Farani - January 16, 2002
E-mail: saeedfarani@hotmail.com
Comments:   Ms. Zahra and Fahim, Sorry to mention your names in my comments. Can you people find some practical ways that how we can promote our language in Pakistani Punjab? Thanks.


Name: Anna - January 16, 2002
E-mail: anna@nomail.com
Comments:   Zahra, you are a spoilsport. Sermons were good but too much of everything is bad. Nobody in this world can accuse Punjabis of being lazy or just armchair philosophers. The state of Punjab IN COMPARISON to other areas in the sub-continent on both sides of Border proves this as this place is much more prosperous then areas around these. This is because of Punjabis' enterprising, risk taking, hard working and zestful life styles. Punjabis dances and steps are also akin to this lifestyle, full of life and energy. You may call it jumping up and down but one has to have the required level of energy to jump. Punjabis get this energy by working hard. So, if they want to have fun on festivals, I can't understand what is wrong with that. So, please keep your sarcasm out of it and let others enjoy. Keep smiling always.


Name: Another Punjabi Dhagga - January 15, 2002
E-mail: sawadhagga@punjabidhaggas.com
Comments:   Anyone interested in what the faujis in khakis told the enthusiatic farmer, who went to the city center after being backed by his peers unanimously, about what are the priorities for the country? The Brig. sahib's chowkidar told him on behalf of Brig. sahib that there are for more serious problems facing our nation. We have enemies all around our borders ready to annihilate our good and righteous nation. There is no need for phones or internet in the village. All the people who need it have already moved to the city. This is time for sacrifice and not to wish for luxuries of life. This is time to save God and his deen. He was reminded of his duties in such a time when God and country needs him. The disillusioned old farmer came back to his village but he did not cry when he looked at his dying crops. He was instead looking forward to fulfill his duties. He came back to his home in Hudiara and is now waiting for nuclear bombs to drop by. He is dead in either case but that is not the point. Point is that dhaggas have their minds blocked by bhangra, basant, bae-sakhi, lohri and other useless festivities instead of more meaningful ones like valentines day, Eid, shab-e-barat and New Year.


Name: Zahra - January 15, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Long long time ago, far far away in the dark woods outside Lahore, there lived a kind-hearted farmer. The farmer had a few acres of land. His land was green, fertile and many from the neighborhood would come to see when the wheat and rice harvest was in full bloom. One day his land got a strange kind of a flu. It turned out that some kind of agricultural disease attacked his wheat and rice harvest. He went to the neighbors on the left and the ones on the right to consult. But unfortunately none could help. He called for a session of Panchayat to discuss this matter. Unfortunately, all were ignorant on the latest developments of solving this problem. Strangely, it was the festivite time of the year. Other farmers were celebrating, but this poor guy had no way of finding out the root cause of his problem. So, he sat in despair and started talking to himself:
Farmer: Kash, God had granted me with the power to see through this issue.Sigh....

Farmer: Kash, Kash, Kash...
So, he kept on indulging in a talk with himself when suddenly he picked up an old newspaper lying nearby with an ad. of a fertilizer and a phone number. He looked around and realized that he did not have the facility of telecommunication. Then, suddenly he went very sad and thought that despite the fact that the land provided enough food and money to all the villagers, but they never thought of investing that money in creating better facilities for their village that was surrounded by dark woods. Suddenly he got out of the sheer depression and started contemplating on the advertisement he saw in the paper. The kind-hearted farmer had attended school till 5th grade in the village so he knew how to read. I just wanted to state that in case the reader wondered. He put together a list of things he would want for his village so that next time if any problem of that magnitude hits anyone, they know where to call and what to do. So, he called for another session of the local wise ones and presented his recommendations and discussed the required amenities. All the locals after a few hours of consultation agreed to the new developments that they would like to implement in their little town. Their unanimous support encouraged the good-farmer and he proceeded with his request to the district head. As he left in his clean and crisp dress, he had a smile on his face that he would bring a positive change in his little town. As he passed by his lands under the flu: he addressed them in a firm tone: "you will be fine. I need to take some steps before you are fully protected of all the viruses and flus." The End.

This story could not become part of the romantic, gregarious, and care-free folk tales of Punjab. Why?
The rest of the folk stories took precedance over the thought behind this story.

The positive action of this one man was exemplary. His plans would have added to the benefit of the whole community.
This is what we need. The awareness to develop a stable, functional as well as a well-equipped infra-structure regardless of the fact that you are in a village, in a town, in a city, in an ultra developed city or in a not-so-ultra-developed city.

It's fine to celebrate the festivities that are part of the cultural norms or rites or rituals, but just like religious extreme can lead to mental blockade and stagnance; similarly cultural stagnance can also lead to disaster and create mental blocks.

Jumping up and down on a bae-sakhi festival or performing bhangras otherwise will not do any good to the society in general. Yes, the individual may accelerate the heart beat as well as get a good cardio; but that ain't enough. This energetic individual ought to give back to his community by introducing workable and modern techniques in agriculture and then once he introduces such innovations then he has the right to jump three feet higher than his usual gallop. Sermon Over! Thank You.

Dear Apna Group: Can my story become part of a folk tale? Can it? If yes, please let me know. If no, please explain.


Name: EK-Louri - January 15, 2002
E-mail: kc01@labs.com
Comments:   Sajjno te Mitro, I am looking for the exact English spellings for the name "Lahore"

I don't think that Punjabis pronounce it as La-HOR. The tru pronunciation comes out as LO-UR or something close to that. Any suggestions.


Name: EK-Louri - January 15, 2002
E-mail: kc01@labs.com
Comments:   Sajjno te Mitro, I am looking for the exact English spellings for the name


Name: Javed Zaki - January 15, 2002
E-mail: zakimoha@pilot.msu.edu
Comments:   LohRi sub nooN Mubarak. (((((((( Lohri of Dulla Bhatti ))))))))))) A festival uniquely Punjabi is Lohri, celebrated a day before Makar Sakranti in January. It marks the end of winter. Punjabis light log fires, hurl a few rewaries in it before they eat the rest. They dance round the fire, sing a doggerel of which every line ends in a 'ho'. Boys go round Punjabi homeschanting the same doggerel and collect money for more rewaries. I did not have a clue about the origin of this festival till Salig Ram Gosain (Salig Hafizabadi) sent me a small piece on it. Apparently, it is to commemorate the memory of one Dulla Bhatti of a Muslim tribe inhabiting Sandil Baar between the rivers Ravi and Chenab. His main occupation was to loot royal treasuries being taken from Lahore to Peshawar when they passed through Hafizabad (tehsil Gujranwala, now in Pakistan). He was a kind-hearted robber and gave away some of his loot to the needy and provided dowries for girls whose parents could not afford them. He came to be known as Sakhi Lutera (generous brigand). Once when Emperor Akbar was on pilgrimage to pay homage to the tomb of Fakir Baban Bukhari on the western boundary of Hafizabad, his eyes fell on a pretty Hindu girl and he wanted to have her in his already over-stocked harem. The girl's parents approached Dulla Bhatti for help. he same night Dulla organised the girl's marriage to a Hindu boy. Akbar was furious and ordered his arrest. The royal police was unable to capture him. Ever since Panjabis - Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs - have sung his praises on Lohri:........................................... Dulla Bhatti Wala ho ....................................... Dulley the Dhee Viyahee ho ................................. Dullay Shakkar Payee ho .................................... Kudi daa Lal Patakka ho .................................... Kudi daa Salu Patta ho...................................... I can't translate these lines. Gosain Salig Ram is proud of being a Hafizabadi. Among the eminent sons of Hafizabad were Diwan Singh Maftoon, Mathura Das Pahwa and Dina Nath Passi of Paisa Akhbar. Among living eminent Hafizabadis is Jagmohan, minister in the Vajpayee cabinet................. (((Chacha Khushwant Singh, Hindustan Times, Jan. 15)))


Name: bawa - January 15, 2002
E-mail: bnanno@altavista.com
Location: Leioa,      Spain
Comments:   Dear All, Thanks for reminding me of the "Sundar Mundariye" song, and its meaning: something I have never thought about, although have sung it loudly on Lohri as a child! A neighbour from a village in northern Punjab also taught us this as a child, when eating moogphalis around the Lohri bonfire, you had to throw in the shells and also some reowrees and say "Isar aaye, daleedar jaaye, daleedar dee jarh chulhe paaye", it was supposed to get rid of winter and ask for a change of the cold weather for the better.


Name: suman - January 14, 2002
E-mail: skashy@yahoo.com
Comments:   Dulla bhatti. It was very nice to be reminded about Lohri. Next time, may I request that you, or anybody else, post information about upcoming Punjabi festivals a week or so before the date. This might create an opportunity for friends to get together and celebrate these festivals. In some adapted way! Safir, that was a very interesting Dulla Bhatti story. I have come across a version of the Lohri story that may be of some interest. This one seems to be more of an oral folk lore version. I quote. “Somewhere between Gujranwala and Sialkot there was a thick forest called Rakh. There used to live a Muslim daku called Dulla Bhatti, the Robin Hood of Punjab. He was brave, generous and provided maximum help to everyone in distress. During the reign of Jahagir, a middle class Hindu, who was a jealous and cunning man, spread a rumour that his neice was very beautiful and would do credit to the Mughal harem. On learning this the Mughal officers wanted to carry her off forciably. The girls father was extremely worried and sought the protection and help of Dulla Bhatti. Dulla at once married her off to a young Hindu boy at a simple ceremony in the forest, because the enemies had laid an ambush. He lit the sacred fire in keeping with the Hindu custom. Since there was no priest to chant the holy mantras, he broke into a song composed extempore to add cheer to the occasion. This song is sung till this very day on the Lodhri festival which is celebrated on the 13th of January every year to commemorate this event.” A translation (hurried) of the song follows. Beautiful girl, Who will protect you? Dulla Bhatti will. Dulla married (off) the daughter. A ser of shakkar arrived, Was put in the girls lap/cloth. Her shawl is torn Who will protect her? Her uncle curses. He made a sweet churi But the zamindar stole it. Call the zamindar Hit him with your shoes! One shoe was left, The soldier took it and went away! Does all this make sense? My apologies if it does’nt. Sameer. I think your remarks are absolutely on the mark. I wish for a world where there is one religion (love and peace, naturally) , one language (Punjabi, but chances are a bit better that it will be angrezi) and one currency (no opinion on this one)! Well, one currency is the only possibility.


Name: Punjabi Paindoo - January 14, 2002
E-mail: punjabi_paindoo23@hotmail.com
Comments:   Fahim jee: Tuhaada naan theek nahee likhia geyaa see. naraaz naa hona es paindoo de angrejee te typing bohot maree e. rab raakha


Name: Punjabi Paindoo - January 14, 2002
E-mail: punjabi_paindoo@hotmail.com
Comments:   Mohammadad Fahim Jee: jaire lok punjabi laee larde pai ney onhaan noon kyoon rokde o badshaho .. hazur, gal noon samjhan dee koshis karya karo - tuhaada kee khial e je east punjabi apnee zuban te soobey waste na larde te ohthe punjabi da ehoo e darjaa honaa see jehra aj e) ohniyaan e akhbarran nikalniyaan see te ohne e punjabi college te universtian honian see te ohniyaan e kitabban chapniyaan see? ohthey tuhade khial mutaabiq zubaan waste struggle karan dee kopi lod naheen see? sohnio, sahnoon e kah ke jhakaa na dawao ke 70% pakistanee punjabi pakistani punjabee bolde ne es laee zubaan waste struggle de koi lod naheen. sajno, e te daso ke west punjab wich kitne lok punjbaee parhnaa jande ne? kinyaan punjbee akhbaraan nikaldiyaan ne? kiney parhe likhey lok apni maan bolee naal peyar karde nain te kinain urdu dey hath charh ke apnee zubaan bhul gai ne? kyon naa enj karye je 70% punjbaiyaan dee zubaan punjabee e te urdu da rola e muka dayye? tuhanoon es te koi etraaz te naheen? yaan tuseen chahnde o je urdu parhah parhah ke sarey punjabian de mut marde jao te kehnde jao fikar na karo ehde naal punjabi noon kujh naeen honda kyoon je un parh paindoo te halee we punjabee e bolde nain. sohniyo aseen paindoo aide bhole naheen jinaan tuseen samajde o. e mitti kise hor diyaan akhaan wich jhulo. rab rakha


Name: Javed Zaki - January 13, 2002
E-mail: zakimoha@pilot.msu.edu
Comments:   Zahra and Others! To get acquainted with the life and struggles of ‘Dullah Bhutti’, read the play (TAKHT-LAHORE) by the famous Panjabi intellectual and writer, Najam Hassain Syed. It is surely a great asset of panjabi historical literature and should be posted on apna’s website.....Rammah Ji! Please ask Manzur if he has a copy of the play. I will also look for it in my own collection. I have a copy of another play by Najam syed (Ik Raat Ravi Di), which portrays the struggle and resistance of Panjabis against the British Colonialism during the uprising of 1857. It was lead by another hero of the Panjab, Ahamd Khan Khharal.


Name: Mahmud Fahim - January 13, 2002
E-mail: agsmz@yahoo.com
Location: Vienna, VA     USA
Comments:   Dear Saeed and Sameer: I don’t understand the criteria of nominal believe you people want to introduce here for the religion. How can you understand the metaphor of all sufia and their poetry under this restriction? Extremism in any form is bad. You are calling Punjabi as the poor language, which is unbelievable. The language has its own importance and in the current era, the awareness about the Punjabi in the masses and the number of publications are the proof in this regard. By the way which language fought for its identity and than survived due to that fight. It actually comes from the masses and they make it alive rather than so-called intelligentsia. Statistically, the students who dominate in colleges and universities are still coming from villages. The urban students may have the edge of technology but as far as the creativity is concerned, it is mostly the part of villagers. Saeed you know better that more than 70% population is living in villages and are illiterate, so how Urdu comes as their problem. Any person who speaks in Urdu in the villages still creates laughter. So literacy and economy are the core issues for the Punjab, not Urdu or English, religion or culture. Let we think Punjab as an 80% literate province, then I am not seeing any danger to my culture and heritage. Regards


Name: Hassan Shah - January 13, 2002
E-mail: hassan.shah@wanadoo.be
My URL:
Location: Brussels,      Belgium
Comments:   Could any sikh brother on this forum tell how many sikhs are living in Afghanistan? How did they end up there and do they still speak punjabi? Thanks


Name: Zahra - January 13, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Safir Rammah: Thanks.

Please make a correction on my last post if you can. My little para on Musharraf should have a heading stating "General Note." Unfortunately, as one cannot edit one's posts, I have to request you to do that. Something else to look into whenever you plan to make some revisions to this forum.
Thanks.


Name: Saeed Farani - January 13, 2002
E-mail: saeedfarani@hotmail.com
Location: Rawalpindi, Punjab     Pakistan
Comments:   Dear APNA Gurus, I 100% agree with Veer Sameer's views that a person who does not respect and believe in the Punjabi cultural heritage and traditions does not really have any reason to be at this site. A person not believing or nominally believing in some sort of religion with strong love and respect for Punjabi cultural heritage and folk traditions ought to be equally welcomed. This site is for the promotion of our mother tongue which is being supressed every day in Pakistan. So we should think to revive and fight for the rights of this poor language. We should try to find ways how we can revive and resist for the noble cause of our language. I will request to all those such participants who try to detrack our discussion on Punjab and Punjabi that please choose some other sites for your views which are often contradictory to our struggle. We are already very unfortunate creature who had lost their identity so please let us revive this identity. Please don't mind. It is my request after watching many meaningless discussions. Let us join our all resources (minds, souls and materials) to revive our mother tongue. Thanks.


Name: DullaBhatti - January 13, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   Rammah sahib, there is a very detailed article about Dullah Bhatti in 1998 issue of SAHIT, Lahore by Raja Rasalu. It gives lot of back ground information about Bhatti khandan and tale of Dullah Bhatti and history of the Sandal Bar area. There is an org in Lahore called Dullah Bhatti Academy chaired by Ch. Bashir Hussain Bhatti who is working on perserving the Dullah Bhatti's mazar, researching about his life and times and highlighting his role as a Punjabi folk hero.


Name: Safir Rammah - January 13, 2002
E-mail: rammah@apnaorg.com
Location: Fairfax, Va     USA
Comments:   Dear Zahra: I am not aware of any site with material on Dullah Bhatti, but here is the gist of his story.

Dullah Bhatti (real name Abdullah Bhatti) who became a living folk lore in Punjab during his lifetime, was a real-life hero if we look from the perspective of indigenous revolts and freedom movements against the tyranny of Mughal rulers. These movements had risen in Punjab from time to time throughout the Mughal rule and have mostly been ignored by modern historians as farmers’ revolts against land tax or lagan. Most of the histories of Punjab, as you know, were compiled after British armies finally subjugated Punjab in 1849 after some bloody fights. The one at Chillianwala was perhaps the worst military loss they ever faced in India. Most of their post 1849 scholarship in Punjab’s history is colored by their desire to convince Punjabis on the benefits of British rule and to favorably compare it with the past rulers. It was self defeating for their purpose to highlight the many Punjabi heroes who had struggled against the Mughal Empire. Not much work has been done on Punjab’s history after the Independence and most of what we read is a copycat of the research done by British historians – with some notable exceptions. It is no wonder that Punjabi hero’s like Dullah Bhatti remain a folk lore and not much historical research is done to put their life struggle in proper perspective. At any rate, here is very briefly what we know from the historical records:

Dullah's family, the Bhatti’s, had ruled a large area between Ravi and Sindh rivers that was named after Dullah’s grandfather, Sandil, as Sandil di bar. With Pindi Bhattian as their headquarter, Bhatti’s had ruled this area from roughly about 1335 – 1589. The last few decades of this period coincide with the height of Akbar’s rule. You can see the disadvantage that Bhatti’s story has. How can we view their struggle as legitimate freedom movement when from early grades in schools we have been taught that Akbar and rest of the Mughal kings were great Islamic heroes? Any way, to continue, Akbar had a real hard time in subjugating Bhatti’s who had refused to accept the supremacy of Delhi’s darbar, which actually became Lahore darbar during that time since Akbar had to live in Lahore for many years during his campaign against Bhatti’s and others in Punjab. We know that at least for three generations, Bhatti’s were a big source of trouble for Mughals. Dullah’s father Farid Khan and grandfather Sandil were both captured by Mughal’s after a major military campaign. They were hanged outside Delhi Gate in Lahore. Dullah who was a young boy at that time had to hide around while growing up. When he came to age, he organized a revolt against Mughals and soon recaptured most of the Sandil Bar’s area. In the ensuing brilliant gorilla and regular military struggle against Mughals, which lasted for almost a decade, he defeated many lashkars that were sent from Lahore to subdue him. His brilliance as a military and guerilla war commander, the elements of revenge in his story and the love and support he got from his own people captured the imagination of his contemporaries.

The Mughals were, in fact, never able to defeat him militarily until one day he was overpowered by a large Mughal army detachment while hunting with a handful of companions. He was taken to Delhi and presented at Akbar’s Darbar. Akbar offered him life and freedom if he would agree to end his struggle against him. Dullah flatly refused this offer and instead accepted the certain death. He was taken back to Lahore where he was publicly hanged. The famous Punjabi Sufi poet, Shah Hussain, was present at Dullah’s hanging and there are oral traditions about a fascinating dialogue between the two before Dullah was hanged. This is a real brief account but I guess it will be enough to give you some idea of why Dullah is still a folk hero in Punjab.


Name: Sameer - January 13, 2002
E-mail: jbsameer@yahoo.com
Location: New York,      USA
Comments:   Dear DullaBhatti: Happy Lohri to you as well as anybody who cares. Here is another example of common heritage that must be exploited to the fullest to strngthen the bond between Punjabis of various nationalities. Same goes for the coming Basant in few days.

Older generation of Punjabis in the central Punjab, i.e., Rachna, know of this tradition pretty well but post partition generation has lost this part of traditional heritage.

It is always better to discuss and talk about similarities than differences when the purpose is to seerve Punjab, Punjabis and Punjabi Language. That is why, I believe that a discussion of religions often leads to the opposite direction because of varying levels of infatuation with their religion by Punjabis. Some try to overcome it by suggesting the similarities of sufism and Sikhism and concept of God. It is nothing new. This technique was tried centuries earlier called Bhagti movement, which did not succeed in decreasing the level of hostilities among Punjabis based on religion. Even those who adhered most to Bhagti movement (Sikhs) were prosecuted most in the history. Not just creating friendships and respect, even normalyzing relationships using similarites of religions or Sufism are likely to suffer from the built-in differences of belief systems. The strengthening of bond is not likely to materialize by closing in the gap of differences; tightening of cultural heritage and tradition bondings is much safer and better bet.

A person who does not respect and believe in the Punjabi cultural heritage and traditions does not really have any reason to be at this site. A person not believing or nominally believing in some sort of religion with strong love and respect for Punjabi cultural heritage and folk traditions ought to be equally welcomed.


Name: DullaBhatti - January 13, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   forgot to format the song properly.

Sunder mundriya..ho
Tera kaun vichara..ho
Dulla Bhatti walla..ho
Dulle ne ti viahiyi..ho
Saer Shakar payi..ho
Kudi de boje payee..ho
Shallu kaun samete..ho
Chacha galee dese..ho
Chache choori kutee..ho
Zamindaran lutee..ho
Zamindara sidaye..ho Gin-gin pole layee..ho
Ik pola reh gaya..ho
Sipahi farh ke lei gaya..ho
Aakho mundao taana..
Mukai da dana..
Aana lei ke jana..


Name: DullaBhatti - January 13, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   Happy Lohri to all!

Today, 13th of January is the Lohri day in Punjab and many parts of North India. Lohri is one of those festivals which has its roots in Hindu mythology and fire worshiping and is celebrated in most of India with different names but for Punjabis it something every one hs a reason to celebrate. Homes who had a wedding in the last year celebrate it, families who had a male child in the last year celebrate it, anything else of worth celebration. People distribute sweets, munghphali, popcorns, guRh, khazooraN etc etc on Lohri to their freinds and relatives and ot anyone who comes to their door. Yougn kids go home to home just like kids here in USA do on Halloween...they knock at the door of one of the families who is celebrating...they sing songs, make jokes and try to humour, flatter or if nothing else works taunt and embarrass them at which point they will give the kids, sweets and some money. Kids form their groups of 3-10 people and at the end of the evening divide all the valuables equally. Also, brother(s) sendspecial packages of sweets to their sister to be distributed in her fmaily and neighbourhood...also called bhaaji or vartoN bhaaji...Special food,usually zarda(peelay chaawal for the culturally deprived ones),some meat dish etc is made for dinner...guys usually indulge in their all time favourite..yes drinking....and as the night falls a bon fire is lit in the courtyard and everyone sits down around it....singing, making jokes, eating munghphali, guRh, rewRiyaN etc...throwing teh munghphalli shells into the fire...it is a fun festival for everyone kids and adults alike. As for as I know it is not celebrated in Pakistani Punjab as it is considered a Hindu festival but Sikhs have embraced it as their own.

Here is a Lohri song.

Sunder mundriya..ho Tera kaun vichara..ho Dulla Bhatti walla..ho Dulle ne ti viahiyi..ho Saer Shakar payi..ho Kudi de boje payee..ho Shallu kaun samete..ho Chacha galee dese..ho Chache choori kutee..ho Zamindaran lutee..ho Zamindara sidaye..ho Gin-gin pole layee..ho Ik pola reh gaya..ho Sipahi farh ke lei gaya..ho Aakho mundao taana.. Mukai da dana.. Aana lei ke jana..

Aana lei ke jaana??...this song must have been comlied long time ago. hunn te 10 de note naal vi kujh nai ban'da.:-)

14th of January is the first of month of Maagh. Kite flying on Basant starts...Basant is on 5th day of Maagh(thus also called Basant Panchmi)...which is 18th January this year.

Happy Basant to all and safe kite flying.

I will take by kite to the city park tomorrow and declare Basant season single handedly.:-)


Name: Zahra - January 13, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Dear Apna Group(Safir Rammah): I have read the story of Dullah Bhatti in my childhood. I am talking about the historical character of a folk-story. Could you please route me to the actual story if we have that on this website anywhere? Also, I suggest as we have so many folk-tales and different music items. It would be great to have a search field, where one can find the info on the desired search. For instance, if I am searching on Waris Shah or Nursat Fateh Ali, I should be able to find everything from article to music collection under their name. Just like you will conduct a search on any search engine. Just a thought. Take Care.


Name: DullaBhatti - January 12, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   Zahra, I am not sure what your point is besides, dragging me into your inane discussion, for making personal comments on me when I have not even interacted with you for God knows how many months. Now I might be whatever I am, and I never claimed being the most articulate person on earth..not even close...I know my weeknesses very well...but you just don't seem to like my name...hence your derogatory comments about the real dullah bhatti. Talking about off the mark or on the mark or whatever your obsession...what does your comment about dullah bhatti has to do with our little argument here? and then of all the people you talk about being off the mark. I really don't know why I have got your special attention...if you are mistaking me for being someone else..let me tell you I don't have anything against you... So Please let it go. Peace!!!!!!!!!


Name: Zahra - January 12, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Dulla Bhatti G: Didn't I say that Insaan Kisee Haal Main Khush Naheen Rehtaa? By the way, was the real Dulla Bhatti also that far far away from being "right on the mark" in terms of his arguments ?:) If he was, then you are doing an excellent job :) Indeed, Bushra is intelligent, spontaneous and open-minded. I am glad you came forth admitting that this forum would be dull and dead without the contribution of the vocal ones.

General Note:

Right now, so much is going on at our borders, that I feel like saluting President Musharraf myself for his zest and zeal. I have developed great admiration for this man; and I pray and plan on doing so very regularly for his long life and the fact that may God grant him the strength as well as tenacity to stand by and implement his far-sighted and strategically well thought out plans. After years, Pakistan has had a real man as a leader. Previously, we've had clowns and retards from all walks of life; who came and stayed and played all the sick practical jokes that one could perceive; and exploited the nation like hell with their sick and repulsive agendas. May God grant President Musharraf a very objective, stable and peaceful life(Amen).


Name: DullaBhatti - January 12, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   Zahra ji, I don't remember when was last time I did any behas with you or anyone else on this board. Certainly it has been long time. You seem to be mistaking me for Bushra Khan. Now there is a real Punjaban kuRi..no vall chhall..she says as it is. I wish I was that bold and intelligent.


Name: Zahra - January 12, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Bushra: Just wanted to mention something here. By choosing not to address your concerns, I did not mean to put your views down. It's just that we do not hold same views and mindset on certain perspectives; and that's fine too. You should not hold back your thoughts, just because your own gender may disagree with you. I did not need to remind you of that. Still,I thought I would write that any way. Take Care...


Name: Zahra - January 12, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Dulla Bhatti G: My heartiest apologies for missing on a very poignant point. Please consult Sherpal for overcoming the trait of unnecessary behas-o-tumhees. Asoolun Agur Main Enron Kae Saath Hoti, Toa Maeree Energy Level should have been low at this time. Again, a light weight argument from you. But then my sikh friend said that aside from being spoilt brats some of them are also....I will let it go. :) Some other time.


Name: Javed Zaki - January 12, 2002
E-mail: zakimoha@pilot.msu.edu
Comments:   Sherpal Singh Ji! Recently, the "Kaafi" I posted is my own. Three-four years back, a collection of my poems, kaafis and geets (titled 'Kangaan')has been published from Lahore (Shahmukhi version) and Chandi-GaRh (gurmukhi version). A month before, one of my poem titled "Baba Ji Guru Nanak de Hazoor, aqeedat naal" has been published in a Panjabi journal. Opening lines are "such Nanak ik Kartaar...Jud chahya akhiaaN meet liaaN ...Te kar liaa Rub Didaar..... I will try to post it..................... Zahra Ji! I will try to post a simple translation of my geet on the 'topic of Women's Liberation', as soon as possible. Presently, I am busy in meeting the deadline for an academic work. TAKE CARE.


Name: DullaBhatti - January 12, 2002
E-mail: dullabhatti47@yahoo.com
Comments:   Zahra, thanks for worrying about me......what happened? I thought you were supposed to be very busy next few months? Don't tell me you were working for Enron.:-)


Name: Zahra - January 11, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Dear Readers:
This is me again :) I was at the Barnes and Noble getting a book for two friends. One is my department's head; whereas, the other one is a good friend and mentor. Both are unaware of the mystic Islam. I ran into a very sweet story from this book, "The Wisdom of the Sufi Sages," which I wanted to share :

"A miser who had accumulated great riches decided he would take a year off to enjoy himself, when suddenly the Angel of Death appeared before him. The miser argued vehemently that he should be allowed to live, but the Angel began pulling him away.

The miser then said, "Give me just a few more days and I will give you half my wealth," but the Angel refused.

The miser begged, "Give me a single day and I will give you all I own," but the Angel refused.

Finally the miser sobbed, "Give me just long enough to finally write something down."

The Angel agreed to that request and the miser wrote in his own blood,

"Dear friends, value your life-time, I could not buy a single moment more with all the money in my possession." [Attar]

Sherpal:

"Children on the path drink the milk of the Quran and understand only its literal sense.The mature have their own understanding of its inner significance."


Name: Zahra - January 11, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Dear Readers:
This is me again :) I was at Barnes and Noble getting a book for two friends. One is my department's head whereas the other one is a good friend and mentor. Both are unaware of the mystic Islam. I ran into a very sweet story from this book, "The Wisdom of the Sufi Sages," which I wanted to share :

"A miser who had accumulated great riches decided he would take a year off to enjoy himself, when suddenly the Angel of Death appeared before him. The miser argued vehemently that he should be allowed to live, but the Angel began pulling him away.

The miser then said, "Give me just a few more days and I will give you half my wealth," but the Angel refused.

The miser begged, "Give me a single day and I will give you all I own," but the Angel refused.

Finally the miser sobbed, "Give me just long enough to finally write something down."

The Angel agreed to that request and the miser wrote in his own blood,

"Dear friends, value your life-time, I could not buy a single moment more with all the money in my possession." [Attar]

Sherpal:

"Children on the path drink the milk of the Quran and understand only its literal sense.The mature have their own understanding of its inner significance."


Name: Zahra - January 11, 2002
E-mail: Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com
Comments:   Sherpal:

Thanks again for a nice post. You articulation is very flowing and right on the mark. This must have something to do with Malaysia. I hope Brother Dulla Bhatti learns something from you, when it comes to "being right on the mark" :D :)I simply love Malaysian food and the fact that they can mix fruit with cooked sea-food, is amazing. One of my favorites cuisines.




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